Agreed. The message is a worthy one in any time and venue, and also an understandable reply to the critique that somehow he should have transformed the country single-handed. There is no need to wave it around as a factional-specific takedown
LHOD and I have tended not to see eye to eye most of the time. But I will back him up on this point. Certainly as compared to the Bernheads who are screaming obscenities at children who dare to attend Hillary Clinton events with their parents.
Edit: Nevermind.
Anyone who would vote for a different candidate than they otherwise planned to, in order to spite a stranger they consider “wrong on the Internet”? Well…ok then.
… has an admittedly lower threshold of irritation at the Fox-echoers looking for new words to bash Clinton for, as if it were better or at least no different to elect Trump. **LHOD **is not as adolescent about it as others here have been, yes, but it’s a difference only of degree.
Thank you, asahi, for your great OP.
And special thanks to the very eloquent and under-rated President you quote.
It’s completely illogical. It is cutting off my nose to spite my face. In fact, since the GOP candidate is basically a fascist, I can’t in good conscience act as a spoiler this year. Please keep in mind though, that alienating your allies is not a good electoral strategy. Young voters are the future of the Democratic Party. It’s perfectly ok to remind us to stay engaged with more than just the Presidential race, and vote in the midterms and local races. I agree 100% with that. But your tone of pure condescension REALLY rubs me the wrong way.
They are.
And they can, as part of a coalition, bring about real change with sustained effort from local to top of ticket levels. Being part of a coalition though means accepting compromises, accepting that your agenda is not the only agenda that matters to the group as whole.
I suspect that most Millennial voters do realize that and are growing into the power they can have a reliable members of a coalition. Of course “Millennials” themselves are a mixed group hardly of one mind. The top issues of concern for a Millennial Hispanic American, or a Millennial Black American, or a Millennial Gay American, may not be the same as each other or the same as a Millennial college-educated White American.
Yes a 14 point swing to Democratic president among young Whites, now a narrow majority, but the emerging great strength is not in that portion of the Millennial cohort by itself.
Millennial white voters are part of the future of the Democratic party but not them alone.
I’m actually quite puzzled why Sanders doesn’t have more support amongst African Americans. I thought the photo of him being arrested protesting against segregation would have helped him more than it did. Is it because they prefer Clinton’s actual policies, or do they just have that much of a strong attachment to her personality?
Am I the only one surprised and dismayed at how tiny this Democratic lean is among white Millenials?
It is dismaying. But keep in mind that the GOP has held a sizable advantage amongst white voters since about 1968. In fact, the last time a Democratic President received a majority of the white vote was Lyndon Johnson in 1964!
Protesting against segregation in Chicago in the 1960s, then representing one of the whitest states in the country in Congress - where you don’t have much opportunity to work on civil rights bills, then starting to notice black people when you aren’t getting their votes during the primary season - is not great compared to being First Lady in a state with a higher black population where Civil Rights is very important, being First Lady where you treated African Americans with respect, then representing New York - with a higher black population, then going on a listening tour very early in your candidacy specifically to listen to African American concerns.
But I think the bigger deal is that Sanders wants to peg all of societies ills on class and income - and racism is just a problem that stems from that. Racism in the U.S. is way more complex than that.
He has similar issues with women - especially those of a certain age - as we politely put it once the crowsfeet come in. As a congress person he is fine on women’s issues - but Hillary has been in the trenches on workplace issues and reproductive rights for a long time doing a lot more work.
That was half a century ago. The fact that he’s had to point to that to establish his bona fides shows mainly that he hasn’t done, or even tried, much of anything on the topic since then, AKA in the life and memory of the majority of African-American voters. Clinton, however, has sown and now she is reaping.
I think it really has more to do with the basic message when lined up against the black experience. Black people are overall gaining ground under the current system. They don’t want a goddamn economic revolution just as things are going in a good direction. They do care about systemic racism, which Clinton promises she’ll address directly rather than saying economic changes will fix black America’s problems.
Frankly, thinking that a 60 yr old picture of Sanders protesting segregation was going to carry him is silly.
I wonder how this breaks down issue by issue though. Do blacks prefer the ACA to single payer healthcare? Or a $12 per hour minimum wage to $15? Do they like our seemingly endless military involvement in the Middle East?
Those aren’t necessarily the issues they care about. And that is part of the issue with Sanders - he thinks everyone should care about the same issues he cares about. I’m far more concerned over high school graduation rates than I am about college tuition. I’m more concerned about reproductive rights that single payer healthcare. I’d like to get paid like my male coworkers and get promoted at the same rate.
This sounds like a “blacks are voting against their interests” argument, but as usual it’s really not that simple. There are two issues here: what do blacks want, and what do blacks think there is any chance of getting. You’re conflating them.
I am not African American, but as a data point, I’m someone who very much would prefer single payer healthcare to the ACA. And I voted for Clinton in my state’s primary and never considered voting for Sanders. I like his position on the issue, but I see absolutely no chance that he is going to get single payer health care into law. Not in a first term. Not in a second term. Partly because the Republican Party is completely and as far as I can tell unalterably opposed, partly because not all Democrats in Congress think single payer is a great idea, partly because Sanders has done nothing to encourage the election of like-minded people.
Speaking again for myself, I’m not interested in investing enormous amounts of time and money in things that have no chance of succeeding. I’m not a fan of tilting at windmills, I’m not a fan of Grand Gestures. I object to being told “We’re going to do this” without any sense of *how *we’re going to do this, without any sense that there are massive obstacles in the way. I believe that trying to build castles in the air is at best a distraction from building castles here on earth.
Do “blacks” agree with my way of thinking? I’m sure some do, some don’t. But it’s perfectly reasonable for African Americans, like anyone else, to base voting decisions not just on which candidate’s proposals they prefer–but also on which candidate’s proposals they believe can be achieved.
What’s “practical” can change over time, even quite unexpectedly. When the “Fight for $15” started appearing on the scene, I liked their goal, but I thought it was unrealistic. I regret sitting on the sidelines on this issue, because I do have a direct personal interest in it as a minimum wage worker. Recently my state passed a $15 per hour minimum wage (the wage will be gradually raised every year until 2022).
10 years ago, did anyone think gay marriage would be legal nationwide? Or legal marijuana in several states? We can never know what’s possible unless we try.
And your approach may very well be right, and mine may very well be wrong*. It could indeed be that single payer is right around the corner, were I only wise enough to see it.
But that doesn’t matter, because your question was “Don’t African Americans want these things?” My answer is to demonstrate that people might very well “want” these things and yet not think they have a shot at getting them even if they voted for the candidate who more clearly champions them. You might not approve, but it’s a legitimate way of thinking about the issue; my post was simply to show why people might like (some of) Sanders’s policies better than Clinton’s but still not vote for him. Since you asked and all…
*I will only point out something I hinted at in my previous post and have said more specifically in others: that the Sanders campaign is attempting to build from the top down rather than from the bottom up, is attempting to create change by electing a president rather than by electing legislators at federal, state, and local levels. I do think this is a problematic way of going about it. Note that the three things you mention (marijuana, marriage equality, and minimum wage increases) are all things that began as state initiatives–the feds got involved only later, if at all.
Can you name any specific policy proposals that Hillary supports that Bernie does not support with regard to reproductive rights?
With regard to High School vs College issues. I graduated High School. I work alongside many people who did not, but who make about the same wage as me. If you drop out, you can get a GED, right? What’s the wage differential between a High School Graduate and someone with a GED, is there a difference? How does that compare with the differential of someone who has a High School Diploma versus someone with a Bachelors of Masters degree?