# Obama's dream realized: Ex-Gitmo Prisoner Rejoins Taliban? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 11, 2009, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-dream-realized-ex-gitmo-prisoner-rejoins-taliban/489068 "2009-03-11T13:38:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-dream-realized-ex-gitmo-prisoner-rejoins-taliban/489068/21 "2009-03-11T16:26:04Z")
So this is what passes for a debate? Are we just cutting and pasting Drudge Report headlines now? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-dream-realized-ex-gitmo-prisoner-rejoins-taliban/489068/22 "2009-03-11T16:27:32Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > So this is what passes for a debate? Are we just cutting and pasting Drudge Report headlines now? It’s not like **ralph** has ever done otherwise, though I do wonder why the obvious trolling in the title escaped Pitdom. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-dream-realized-ex-gitmo-prisoner-rejoins-taliban/489068/23 "2009-03-11T16:29:12Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > So. Given that the injustice has already been done, are you saying it’s in the best interests of the US to continue to detain these people, even if they are ‘totally innocent’? It’s in the best interest of the US to stop aggravating the problem. The Taliban is no threat to the US anyway, so it’s a bogus concern regardless. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-dream-realized-ex-gitmo-prisoner-rejoins-taliban/489068/24 "2009-03-11T16:34:22Z")
Also, according to the article, the guy was released in December of 2007. So um, I think we’re done here. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-dream-realized-ex-gitmo-prisoner-rejoins-taliban/489068/25 "2009-03-11T16:39:05Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Also, according to the article, the guy was released in December of 2007. So um, I think we’re done here. Well, he knows that Obama is such a pussy that now he can do whatever he wants to America without consequences! ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-dream-realized-ex-gitmo-prisoner-rejoins-taliban/489068/26 "2009-03-11T16:45:10Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The Taliban is no threat to the US anyway, so it’s a bogus concern regardless. I disagree. The Taliban are gaining in strength and destabilizing Pakistan(which is probably a nuclear power). They thrive in failed states and destabilized areas. The last time they rose to power in a failed state they harbored and supported Al Queda, destroyed priceless cultural treasures, oppressed women and other minorities, and committed a host of other human rights offenses. The Taliban need to be addressed, just as the PLO, IRA, and other groups who were formed out of the desperation of a disenfranchised class needed to be addressed. Either wiped out(and I don’t think the US has the stomach for the type of actions the British used to use to quell revolts in Palestine back in the days of the Mandate) or brought into the system and some of their concerns addressed in exchange for abandoning some of their other causes. The Taliban are more than cult of personality. The desperate situation of the individuals in Afghanistan and the tribal areas of Pakistan fuels them. Take away the fuel and starve the fire is my view. In any event, them being no threat to us is why they were left alone until 9/11. We stood idly by as they imposed brutal governments in Afghanistan in the wake of the Soviet withdrawl, and the reward was a group like them came to power. We shouldn’t repeat this mistake with Pakistan or Afghanistan again. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-dream-realized-ex-gitmo-prisoner-rejoins-taliban/489068/27 "2009-03-11T16:50:25Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > **Tagos** , you’re wrong: you should care, because basic justice is in the best interests of the USA. Not in foreign policy practice that I’ve ever noticed. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-dream-realized-ex-gitmo-prisoner-rejoins-taliban/489068/28 "2009-03-11T17:03:45Z")
The guy was released in 2007 as mentioned, I am sure **ralph** will be here any second to apologize to Obama. ---
**Author:** ![aaslatten](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f14d63/32.png) [@aaslatten](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aaslatten)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-dream-realized-ex-gitmo-prisoner-rejoins-taliban/489068/29 "2009-03-11T17:08:14Z")
Not only was the guy released under Bush’s watch, but the story is old news. I doubt a great debate will be generated. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-dream-realized-ex-gitmo-prisoner-rejoins-taliban/489068/30 "2009-03-11T17:41:54Z")
So I guess we should detain indefinitely any all people for any reason, as long as one or two of them actually turn out to be criminals. Actually, the real problem the OP has (and many like him or her) is that they think the people against Gitmo feel that way because they think that all the people there are innocent. I recall a now banned member arguing against those in Gitmo getting a trial, and arguing “But how do you know they are innocent?” as if the trial wasn’t the method of determining guilt but the reward for not being guilty, their innocence being determined through tarot cards or something. It’s a little depressing sometimes, this level of ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-dream-realized-ex-gitmo-prisoner-rejoins-taliban/489068/31 "2009-03-11T17:52:06Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > [QUOTE=Giles] > Tagos, you’re wrong: you should care, because basic justice is in the best interests of the USA. Not in foreign policy practice that I’ve ever noticed. [/QUOTE] Considering how much of our foreign affairs consist of dealing with the repercussions of our ignoring justice in the past, I’d say that it rather proves what **Giles** was saying. No, we don’t actually pay much attention to justice - and we keep getting hurt by that. And never seem to learn better. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-dream-realized-ex-gitmo-prisoner-rejoins-taliban/489068/32 "2009-03-11T17:57:26Z")
Exactly. We can say that murderous criminal terrorists don’t deserve a fair trial, and I could agree. But suppose we have a prisoner. How do we determine if this guy is a terrorist who doesn’t deserve a fair trial, or an innocent bystander who does? Maybe we could hold some sort of legal proceeding where the people who think this guy is a terrorist who doesn’t deserve a fair trial can present their evidence that he is a terrorist, and since this guy might be an innocent bystander who does deserve a fair trial we can allow him to present evidence that he’s not a terrorist. And only if the government proves that he’s a terrorist who doesn’t deserve a fair trial do we lock him up without a trial. And if the government is unable to prove that he’s a terrorist only then do we put him on trial. But since we now know that he’s innocent, or at least that the government couldn’t prove that he was a terrorist if we did have a trial, maybe we should just skip the trial, since it looks like he’s innocent anyway. And perhaps we could come up with a name for this procedure for determining whether an accused prisoner deserves a fair trial, I’m thinking something catchy like “a fair trial”. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-dream-realized-ex-gitmo-prisoner-rejoins-taliban/489068/33 "2009-03-11T18:12:35Z")
The other issue of course is that enemy combatants generally are from wars that can end, and they are released or whatever, POWs. But what do you do with them if you have a war on terror that cannot effectively ever really end? ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-dream-realized-ex-gitmo-prisoner-rejoins-taliban/489068/34 "2009-03-11T18:46:38Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > I know, it is all that horrible Bush guy’s fault. Boy that Obama is good. He made Bush release someone in Dec of '07. Clearly not Bush’s fault, he was just the president after all. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-dream-realized-ex-gitmo-prisoner-rejoins-taliban/489068/35 "2009-03-11T18:48:13Z")
I’m embarrassed to have overlooked it, and rush to make amends. The OP’s title stinks to high heaven, and he ought to be ashamed. The notion that Obama seeks to undermine America’s security ensuckens dead donkey balls. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-dream-realized-ex-gitmo-prisoner-rejoins-taliban/489068/36 "2009-03-11T18:51:46Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > Boy that Obama is good. He made Bush release someone in Dec of '07. Don’t you remember ? Obama is the Antichrist. Clearly he is a transtemporal and transspacial being, present in all of time and space; not merely a single place and moment. All evil is Obama’s fault, for though you saw him not, he was there. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-dream-realized-ex-gitmo-prisoner-rejoins-taliban/489068/37 "2009-03-11T19:03:47Z")
I don’t see what this case has to do with Obama, because as people said, this guy was released in December of 2007. But, it has crossed my mind to worry that some of the folks let go when Gitmo closes might be responsible for some future terrorist attack on the US. Why were they let go instead of tried? I think Gitmo was bad not because they were holding a bunch of innocent people (thought some probably were) but because they were held without due process which would have sorted the guilty from the innocent. Was there **ever** any plan to eventually get around to trying this people? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-dream-realized-ex-gitmo-prisoner-rejoins-taliban/489068/38 "2009-03-11T19:08:01Z")
Yes. You can find in the the Book of Revelations, look for the part about Gabriel’s trumpet solo. ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-dream-realized-ex-gitmo-prisoner-rejoins-taliban/489068/39 "2009-03-11T19:15:18Z")
Rule of law \> One douche bag joining the Taliban. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-dream-realized-ex-gitmo-prisoner-rejoins-taliban/489068/40 "2009-03-11T19:16:54Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > Why were they let go instead of tried? They probably either had no evidence, or the evidence was tainted by torture and useless. > [@elfkin477](#): > > Was there **ever** any plan to eventually get around to trying this people? I doubt it, unless a kangaroo court with a predetermined outcome counts. More likely they were expected to be held forever, or just taken out some day and dropped into the ocean. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-dream-realized-ex-gitmo-prisoner-rejoins-taliban/489068.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-dream-realized-ex-gitmo-prisoner-rejoins-taliban/489068.md?page=3)