# Obama's economic record - positive or negative? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 31, 2012, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-economic-record-positive-or-negative/629908 "2012-07-31T01:09:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![MemoryLeak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6f9a4e/32.png) [@MemoryLeak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MemoryLeak)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-economic-record-positive-or-negative/629908/81 "2012-08-01T18:16:03Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > You cited the middle class tax rates. For all we know, the upper class tax rates are much higher, refuting your claim that the burden falls mostly on the middle class. But, you knew that. Actually, the United States has the most progressive tax rates of the OECD nations ([spreadsheet](http://dx.doi.org/10.1787/422013187855)). And it’s not even close. Since there are so many more middle-income earners than high-income earners and there’s little progressivity in the tax rates, the burden falls on the middle-income earners. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-economic-record-positive-or-negative/629908/82 "2012-08-01T18:16:56Z")
Meanwhile, a coal mine in Ohio just shut down due to environmental regulations: > **[Harrison County commissioners discuss plans for hydrogen fuel](http://www.timesleaderonline.com/)** > > CADIZ — The Harrison County Board of Commissioners discussed plans for a tri-state regional hydrogen hub on Wednesday. The hydrogen hub will produce, store and make use of hydrogen fuel with the purpose of creating clean energy and reducing carbon... A theoretical model says Obama has created or saved X number of jobs. But in the real world where we can see his policies empirically, we find that he’s actually intentionally killed a lot of jobs. ---
**Author:** ![MemoryLeak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6f9a4e/32.png) [@MemoryLeak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MemoryLeak)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-economic-record-positive-or-negative/629908/83 "2012-08-01T18:18:17Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Wow! From that list, it almost seems like Obama has caused some kind of catastrophic collapse of the financial and housing sectors! > > Good catch. Thank you. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![MemoryLeak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6f9a4e/32.png) [@MemoryLeak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MemoryLeak)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-economic-record-positive-or-negative/629908/84 "2012-08-01T18:23:08Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Not only that, but evidently the president has the power to dictate the wages that private companies pay their employees. I did not know the president had this power. > > Good to know, now I know who to contact when I want to ask for a raise. > > :rolleyes: So I guess if I scroll up, I’ll see similar insightful observations about the items on the OP’s list. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-economic-record-positive-or-negative/629908/85 "2012-08-01T18:33:01Z")
> [@MemoryLeak](#): > > So I guess if I scroll up, I’ll see similar insightful observations about the items on the OP’s list. I was replying to you. You blamed Obama for the state of wages in the country. This is insane. Just pointing that out. But go ahead and try to deflect from that. Its understandable given how ridiculous that was. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-economic-record-positive-or-negative/629908/86 "2012-08-01T18:34:05Z")
> [@MemoryLeak](#): > > Thank you. 🙂 I’m pretty sure that was a sarcastic post. Seems like you may have missed that. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-economic-record-positive-or-negative/629908/87 "2012-08-01T18:40:08Z")
> [@MemoryLeak](#): > > Didn’t realize we were restricted to considering only the facts the OP listed. Seriously? Isn’t that how things work here? The OP makes an assertion, and you respond to it. If you disagree, you offer evidence to the contrary. I see you’ve done that now. I’m not a mind-reader, you know. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-economic-record-positive-or-negative/629908/88 "2012-08-01T18:43:33Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > I’m pretty sure that was a sarcastic post. Seems like you may have missed that. My wife tells me that sometimes I am too subtle. On Facebook, I’ve noticed that fairly often people whose position I am opposing or mocking “like” my posts. For instance, after seeing a spate of “let’s support Chick Fil A posts”, I grabbed a pic of Beaker (the Muppet) and captioned it “Don’t meep with Beaker.” People on both sides of the issue liked it. I didn’t think anyone could miss the sarcasm of the post you referenced, though. ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-economic-record-positive-or-negative/629908/89 "2012-08-01T18:48:47Z")
It is, of course, simplistic in the extreme to call this “Obama’s” economy. He predicted that by the end of 4 years many in the electorate would forget what a mess he inherited, and so it is. Given the opposition he’s faced, I think he’s done well. Several items in the OP have no place being there, such as gasoline prices. Would anyone in the forum care to make the case that Obama (or Bush) directly sets or influences gasoline prices at the pump? ---
**Author:** ![MemoryLeak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6f9a4e/32.png) [@MemoryLeak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MemoryLeak)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-economic-record-positive-or-negative/629908/90 "2012-08-01T18:54:17Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > I’m pretty sure that was a sarcastic post. Seems like you may have missed that. Wow! You don’t feel a breeze or anything? ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-economic-record-positive-or-negative/629908/91 "2012-08-01T18:55:09Z")
> [@Truman\_Burbank](#): > > It is, of course, simplistic in the extreme to call this “Obama’s” economy. He predicted that by the end of 4 years many in the electorate would forget what a mess he inherited, and so it is. Given the opposition he’s faced, I think he’s done well. Several items in the OP have no place being there, such as gasoline prices. Would anyone in the forum care to make the case that Obama (or Bush) directly sets or influences gasoline prices at the pump? Yeah, that and wages too. I really want to know how the president is able to dicate peoples wages. I must have missed that in civics class. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-economic-record-positive-or-negative/629908/92 "2012-08-01T18:57:24Z")
> [@MemoryLeak](#): > > Wow! You don’t feel a breeze or anything? Oh wow, now you’re claiming that you were being sarcastic in response to his sarcasm? Oh lord :rolleyes: What exactly was funny about your response then? Ok, then I was being sarcastic in response to your sarcastic reply to his sarcasm. Your move … ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-economic-record-positive-or-negative/629908/93 "2012-08-01T19:00:00Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Yeah, that and wages too. I really want to know how the president is able to dicate peoples wages. I must have missed that in civics class. I actually don’t mind using wages as an indicator of the economic health of the country, just like average household income. Of course, how much control the president has over these things is still debatable, but we seem to vote as if it matters. ---
**Author:** ![MemoryLeak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6f9a4e/32.png) [@MemoryLeak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MemoryLeak)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-economic-record-positive-or-negative/629908/94 "2012-08-01T19:10:06Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Oh wow, now you’re claiming that you were being sarcastic in response to his sarcasm? > > Oh lord :rolleyes: > > What exactly was funny about your response then? > > Ok, then I was being sarcastic in response to your sarcastic reply to his sarcasm. > > Your move … You make me smile. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-economic-record-positive-or-negative/629908/95 "2012-08-01T19:14:48Z")
> [@MemoryLeak](#): > > You make me smile. 🙂 Since we’re letting others know, you have yet to make me do so. ---
**Author:** ![MemoryLeak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6f9a4e/32.png) [@MemoryLeak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MemoryLeak)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-economic-record-positive-or-negative/629908/96 "2012-08-01T19:31:09Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > I actually don’t mind using wages as an indicator of the economic health of the country, just like average household income. > > Of course, how much control the president has over these things is still debatable, but we seem to vote as if it matters. In principal, I agree with you. But he can lead and he can bully. My issue with the President is lack of leadership. The President is not the boss of everyone (and therefore, arguments along the line of “if everyone would just do what he wants, we’ll be fine” are silly - if that’s the only way the president can lead, then he needs to join the Army). I realize that since 2011 he has had an unfriendly Congress (and even without the Republican veto in the Senate, his own party ain’t exactly got his back). No excuse. Lead. Was he dealt a lousy hand? Absolutely. Get over it. I believe his administration believed this would all just work itself out the way it always had in the past. And if it had, this would be a laugher. But it didn’t. The only ideas I hear are we just need to spend some more money (which sounds suspiciously like the prescription for education). So if you ain’t got any ideas, let’s try the next guy. ---
**Author:** ![MemoryLeak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6f9a4e/32.png) [@MemoryLeak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MemoryLeak)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-economic-record-positive-or-negative/629908/97 "2012-08-01T19:32:35Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Since we’re letting others know, you have yet to make me do so. You make me sad. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-economic-record-positive-or-negative/629908/98 "2012-08-01T19:33:07Z")
Normally you don’t see an administration actively obstructing job creation. The story I linked to out of Ohio is not unique. Prioritizing the environment over job growth is a defensible policy, so long as that is actually your policy and you are honest about that policy. Either the president doesn’t understand the tradeoffs involved in his policies, or he’s lying about jobs being his #1 priority. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-economic-record-positive-or-negative/629908/99 "2012-08-01T20:04:44Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Normally you don’t see an administration actively obstructing job creation. The story I linked to out of Ohio is not unique. > > Prioritizing the environment over job growth is a defensible policy, so long as that is actually your policy and you are honest about that policy. Either the president doesn’t understand the tradeoffs involved in his policies, or he’s lying about jobs being his #1 priority. Your link places blame on Obama for something referred to as the “war on coal” or on the “U.S. Environmental Protection Agency for causing a downturn in coal demand.” Since there are no specific details offered, I’m not sure how to gauge the accuracy of these statements. But assuming for the sake of argument that they are true, this doesn’t necessarily contradict Obama’s priority of job creation. What’s that logical fallacy called, the excluded middle or something? It is possible to want to create jobs – and surely you don’t think Obama is against this, right? – and at the same time be concerned about the environment. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-economic-record-positive-or-negative/629908/100 "2012-08-01T20:05:46Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The story I linked to out of Ohio is not unique. > > Prioritizing the environment over job growth is a defensible policy, so long as that is actually your policy and you are honest about that policy. Either the president doesn’t understand the tradeoffs involved in his policies, or he’s lying about jobs being his #1 priority. The story you linked to is, IMO, bullshit. Coal mining is hurting because we (meaning the US) found a whole bunch of natural gas. That operation closed because one of their major sub-contracters went bankrupt, at least as I understand it. That Robert Murray would decide to blame it on Obama and the EPA is neither surprising nor compelling. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-economic-record-positive-or-negative/629908.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-economic-record-positive-or-negative/629908.md?page=6)