# Obama's got 9 days to show some guts and save the republic **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 23, 2020, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-got-9-days-to-show-some-guts-and-save-the-republic/848393 "2020-02-23T15:09:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-got-9-days-to-show-some-guts-and-save-the-republic/848393/141 "2020-02-25T22:13:24Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > You should be embarrassed trying to equate Trump and Reagan that way. Reagan didn’t just come from showbiz. He was head of the Screen Actors Guild and then governor of California. “Both considered fringe”? Laaame. Agreed, and it’s really frustrating and counterproductive to normalize Trump by describing him as just another bad Republican president. This does a lot of the heavy lifting for the Trump side, framing opposition to him as mere partisanship. > [@foolsguinea](#): > > Claire was an incumbent; her opponent beat her by accusing her of corruption & hammering on that alone. Missouri is fighting back against right-to-work. Rethink your stereotypes. I was very active in Missouri politics for twenty years. I met Claire four times, including hosting her on my property on the same day (possibly the exact moment, depending on what time the interview was recorded) Todd Aiken made his infamous “legitimate rape” comments. And 538 documented that she outperformed her state’s partisan lean by double digits. Missouri has just become too red outside of St. Louis, Kansas City, and Columbia. You are telling a narrative of Democratic corruption, but it is the Missouri GOP that has been as nakedly corrupt as any state party I know of, yet they keep on winning. Missouri has gotten whiter and whiter relative to the rest of the country, in part because of a lot of old conservative white people retiring to the Ozarks and the Branson area. ETA: I agree BTW that Inslee, Hickenlooper, and Booker would have been much better choices (not Yang though, WTF). Bullock would have been the best of all. But my top 12 choices (literally) were all out of the race before the end of 2019, or asterisks in the polls, so I have to make do with what’s left. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-got-9-days-to-show-some-guts-and-save-the-republic/848393/142 "2020-02-25T23:28:32Z")
> **[Bernie Sanders looks electable in surveys — but it could be a mirage](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/2/25/21152538/bernie-sanders-electability-president-moderates-data)** > > New research suggests Sanders would drive swing voters to Trump — and need a youth turnout miracle to compensate. > [@](#): > > Democrats should not be very reassured by early polls that find Sanders faring as well against Trump as the more moderate candidates: These numbers may only look decent for Sanders because they assume he will inspire a youth turnout miracle. Our survey data reveals voters of all parties moving to Trump if Sanders is nominated, a liability papered over by young voters who claim they would be inspired to vote by Sanders alone. > [@](#): > > There are reasons to doubt a Sanders-driven youth turnout surge of this size would materialize. First, people who promise in surveys they will vote often don’t, meaning the turnout estimates that Sanders’s electability case rests upon are probably extremely inaccurate. Second, such a turnout surge is large in comparison to other effects on turnout. For example, Sanders would need to stimulate a youth turnout boost much larger than the turnout boost Barack Obama’s presence on the ballot stimulated among black voters in 2008.[…] > > There is no way to be sure whether Sanders’s nomination would produce this historic youth turnout surge — but it seems doubtful. Turnout in the 2020 primaries so far has not exceeded 2008 levels, including among young voters. If anything, research suggests the opposite is more likely to occur: In response to an extreme Democratic nominee, Republicans could be inspired to turn out at higher rates to oppose him. ---
**Author:** ![pjacks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@pjacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pjacks)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-got-9-days-to-show-some-guts-and-save-the-republic/848393/143 "2020-02-25T23:58:37Z")
I can show you ten articles from 2016 about how Trump is unelectable, dude. Dunno what the point of this is. If Sanders doesn’t get a single Never Trump republican vote, good riddance. Bernie will be the nominee because the Democrat party is a mess. It’s too late to stop him. This is what happens when you let dinosaurs run your party and cultivate leadership that completely ignores voters under 60- they rebel and reject the establishment. Gen Z, Millennials & Gen X are getting the candidate they want, and boomers need to kindly get over it and “vote blue no mattter who” like they’ve been shrieking for 4 years. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2020, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-got-9-days-to-show-some-guts-and-save-the-republic/848393/144 "2020-02-26T00:33:56Z")
We’re the ones who do vote blue no matter who. It’s the Bernie crowd that has more trouble with that. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2020, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-got-9-days-to-show-some-guts-and-save-the-republic/848393/145 "2020-02-26T00:38:34Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > We’re the ones who do vote blue no matter who. It’s the Bernie crowd that has more trouble with that. I’m thoroughly unconvinced that’s true–but let’s say it is. Let’s say you’ve got 1000 voters. 450 will vote for Trump. 400 will vote for any Democratic candidate. 150 will only vote for the Democratic candidate if it’s Sanders. How the fuck do you use this scenario to recommend **against** nominating Sanders? ---
**Author:** ![pjacks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@pjacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pjacks)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2020, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-got-9-days-to-show-some-guts-and-save-the-republic/848393/146 "2020-02-26T01:19:19Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > We’re the ones who do vote blue no matter who. It’s the Bernie crowd that has more trouble with that. So now it’s your turn to vote for a candidate you can’t stand just like you tell us to every election. It’s only fair. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2020, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-got-9-days-to-show-some-guts-and-save-the-republic/848393/147 "2020-02-26T01:48:56Z")
> [@pjacks](#): > > So now it’s your turn to vote for a candidate you can’t stand just like you tell us to every election. It’s only fair. The problem is you didn’t fulfill your end. Millennials are have been unenthusiastic election participants. So you’re right, maybe it’s the older generations’ turn – to say fuck it and stay home. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2020, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-got-9-days-to-show-some-guts-and-save-the-republic/848393/148 "2020-02-26T01:54:14Z")
OP, Obama’s not coming around until the nominee is selected. If then. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2020, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-got-9-days-to-show-some-guts-and-save-the-republic/848393/149 "2020-02-26T02:03:05Z")
Oh, he’s going to help the nominee. That’s not in doubt. He would lose a lot of cred as an elder statesman if he sat this one out. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2020, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-got-9-days-to-show-some-guts-and-save-the-republic/848393/150 "2020-02-26T02:19:14Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > The problem is you didn’t fulfill your end. Millennials are have been unenthusiastic election participants. So you’re right, maybe it’s the older generations’ turn – to say fuck it and stay home. No. Not. If it Sanders we need to help him win and try to do what we can for Congress despite the difficulty his being at the top presents. Pretty sure you actually agree but it needs to be said out loud. Btw. Millennials have I believe voted more than Boomers did at their ages. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2020, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-got-9-days-to-show-some-guts-and-save-the-republic/848393/151 "2020-02-26T02:30:05Z")
I was just sticking it to him. Yes, Bernie is better than Trump and everyone should go vote for him if he takes the nomination. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2020, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-got-9-days-to-show-some-guts-and-save-the-republic/848393/152 "2020-02-26T02:38:52Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Let’s say you’ve got 1000 voters. 450 will vote for Trump. 400 will vote for any Democratic candidate. 150 will only vote for the Democratic candidate if it’s Sanders. > > How the fuck do you use this scenario to recommend **against** nominating Sanders? What you have is 1000 voters, 325 are rusted on any GOP, 215 are rusted on any DEM and 110 are Bernie or the Highway (numbers for illustrative purposes only). Your scenario comes into play if the only available demographic to pitch to is the activated DEM base. Is that really the case? ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2020, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-got-9-days-to-show-some-guts-and-save-the-republic/848393/153 "2020-02-26T04:23:35Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I’m thoroughly unconvinced that’s true–but let’s say it is. > > Let’s say you’ve got 1000 voters. 450 will vote for Trump. 400 will vote for any Democratic candidate. 150 will only vote for the Democratic candidate if it’s Sanders. > > How the fuck do you use this scenario to recommend **against** nominating Sanders? Who said it’s a knock on Sanders, and not his supporters? ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2020, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-got-9-days-to-show-some-guts-and-save-the-republic/848393/154 "2020-02-26T04:34:05Z")
For reference, [16% of Sanders supporters say they will not vote if Sanders isn’t the nominee,](http://emersonpolling.com/2020/01/24/national-2020-biden-and-sanders-battle-in-two-way-race-for-democratic-nomination/) and another third that have to see who the nominee is first. So yeah, it’s not out of left field for the “Vote Blue No Matter Who” crowd to look at Sanders’ supporters a bit askance. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2020, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-got-9-days-to-show-some-guts-and-save-the-republic/848393/155 "2020-02-26T05:03:57Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I’m thoroughly unconvinced that’s true–but let’s say it is. > > Let’s say you’ve got 1000 voters. 450 will vote for Trump. 400 will vote for any Democratic candidate. 150 will only vote for the Democratic candidate if it’s Sanders. > > How the fuck do you use this scenario to recommend **against** nominating Sanders? By the same principle that you shouldn’t encourage hostage-taking by negotiating with hostage-takers. To prebut an anticipated response: it’s not the same when you try to appeal to centrist swing voters. Those voters are sincerely torn between voting for a right of center party or a left of center party, finding both sides too extreme and weighing which compromises are tougher. For the far left to play “Chicken” by threatening to sit it out unless they get to control the party forevermore (and it would be forevermore if we encourage them) is just flat-out extortion. They aren’t genuinely torn between the parties. It’s totally disengenuous, “take my ball and go home”, completely opposed to any notion of coalitionbuilding. Have you seen the studies about how strong the norm of reciprocity is in social psychology? In studies, people get so angry about any perceived violation of it that they will sabotage themselves to punish transgressions. For instance, researchers will tell someone that a stranger in another room has chosen to keep 75% of some sort of cash prize (like $15 out of $20). Then they can choose to take the $5 that’s left, or torpedo the whole thing so neither of them gets anything. People will most often choose to get nothing rather than let the other person make what they see as an unfair division. Same principle applies here. > [@CarnalK](#): > > I was just sticking it to him. Yes, Bernie is better than Trump and everyone should go vote for him if he takes the nomination. If Bernie wins the nomination, I will vote for him, but for the first time in over 20 years, I won’t canvas or phone bank for the presidential election, and I won’t speak up for him (nor against him) online. I can’t bring myself to be that disingenuous. If some wavering voter expresses concerns about Bernie, I won’t be able to convincingly assure them it’s all fine. (I know this is a different standard than I expect from candidates, but I would admittedly be a bad politician.) ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2020, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-got-9-days-to-show-some-guts-and-save-the-republic/848393/156 "2020-02-26T05:07:32Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > What part of the OP involved “machinations” or not giving the nomination to the candidate the majority of Democratic voters want? Again, why is Bernie allowed to bring out AOC to persuade voters to support him, but more moderate candidates are not allowed to do the same? No one is talking about taking Bernie’s name off the primary ballots, at least not anyone in that OP. > > Are people actually reading the link in the OP, or just making wild assumptions about what it says? 😕 Dude, I read the link. Who said moderate candidates aren’t allowed to accept the endorsements of Democratic grandees? What your article is promoting is some Dem demigod that can move all of these established Democrats around like chess pieces to jointly pull a Tonia Harding on Bernie. I’d call that a machination: > [@](#): > > And I promise you that every one of them who is right now weighing when to put their thumb on the scale will quickly decide after Super Tuesday that they don’t want to be fighting a lonely battle against an inevitable Bernie. > > Some of these individuals could shake up the race. Imagine the consolidation pressure if an Obama or Clinton came out for Pete or Joe or Amy in the way Ted Kennedy did for Obama in 2008. That would be the type of event that could legitimately change the balance of the race. If it happened soon. Put their thumb on the scale? Change the balance of the race? Jeb’s former staffer should spend more time asking these prominent Dems if they _want_ to endorse candidates in the way he suggests. I’d wager they don’t, since they haven’t, and maybe for the kinds of reasons the author describes, because the Dems still have some American values while the Rs have squandered theirs in the hope it gives them an advantage. Look, I’m like you, I have a union job where there are enough Trumpers around. I get it. I also get the arguments about Bernie’s electability and his effects down ticket. Still, demanding that some Dem grandee swing their reputation like a club at Bernie’s kneecaps is going too far. Still, if Liz can get Obama to give one of his fiery speeches for her between now and Super Tuesday, that’s totally legit. It’s fine if the author wants to give out some free campaign advice, like this: Joe! ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2020, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-got-9-days-to-show-some-guts-and-save-the-republic/848393/157 "2020-02-26T05:08:48Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > If Bernie wins the nomination, I will vote for him, but for the first time in over 20 years, I won’t canvas or phone bank for the presidential election, and I won’t speak up for him (nor against him) online. Really…thanks for this. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2020, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-got-9-days-to-show-some-guts-and-save-the-republic/848393/158 "2020-02-26T05:10:48Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Really…thanks for this. Sincere? I can’t tell. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2020, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-got-9-days-to-show-some-guts-and-save-the-republic/848393/159 "2020-02-26T05:15:23Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Sincere? I can’t tell. 100% sincere. If you were an employer looking to hire someone to advocate for “X” and you showed up saying the things you have said about Sanders in opposition to “X” would you hire you? I sure wouldn’t. So yeah…if you cannot get on board then sit it out. Or pull the lever for Turmp…as you like. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2020, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-got-9-days-to-show-some-guts-and-save-the-republic/848393/160 "2020-02-26T05:23:39Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > 100% sincere. > > If you were an employer looking to hire someone to advocate for “X” and you showed up saying the things you have said about Sanders in opposition to “X” would you hire you? > > I sure wouldn’t. > > So yeah…if you cannot get on board then sit it out. Or pull the lever for Turmp…as you like. I’m offended by that last part. Nothing I have EVER said should provide anyone with any reason to think I would vote for Trump for any reason short of some maniac holding my wife and kids hostage. Nor would I deny the Democratic nominee my vote. When I participate in the primary process I believe it’s an implicit contract to vote for whichever nominee wins, even if it is the second-worst candidate running (the worst being Tulsi Gabbard). Nor do I think it’s right to shit-talk that nominee once there is no possibility of denying them the nomination. Once Bernie has 1,991 delegates, I will observe the Thumper rule, go quiet, and then quietly, privately go vote for Bernie and the DFL slate on Election Day. ETA: Upon a moment’s reflection, I don’t want to state as some inviolable principle that someone who participates in a party’s nominating contest must always vote for ANY nominee. I think it was honorable for instance for NeverTrumpers to refuse to vote for him in the 2016 election. But I do then believe if that happens, you need to leave the party and cannot in good conscience come back and vote in that party’s primary four years later. You gotta sit at least one round out. But I’m not there with Bernie. I will vote for him unless he does something I can’t even conceive of (and I think I know him well enough for that to be unlikely). If OTOH Gabbard had somehow won, that might have been enough to make me quit the party. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-got-9-days-to-show-some-guts-and-save-the-republic/848393.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-got-9-days-to-show-some-guts-and-save-the-republic/848393.md?page=9)