# Obama's Harvard transcript - an issue? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 1, 2010, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript-an-issue/548752 "2010-08-01T00:52:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2010, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript-an-issue/548752/1 "2010-08-01T00:52:55Z")
I was just having a conversation with a family friend who is a staunch Republican, and someone I generally respect. He claims that Obama’s Harvard transcript has never been publicly released, and seems to read at least some whiff of scandal into that. This is not an issue I know anything about at all, and I felt I could not intelligently respond. So: (1) is it true that Obama’s Harvard transcript has not been made public? (2) if so, is that at all unusual? Are high level public figures’ educational records usually made public? (3) if in fact that is unusual, was that Harvard’s decision or Obama’s? And what justification was given? thanks ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2010, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript-an-issue/548752/2 "2010-08-01T01:09:36Z")
It’s hidden somewhere in Kenya, with his birth certificate. I’ve gotten several wing-nut e-mails from my conservative friends where this is listed as one of the “suspicions” about Obama. The last one was comparing him to McCrystal about the time when the he got the boot. It’s just one of those things people latch onto when they hear it, if they’re predisposed to be strongly anti-Obama. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2010, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript-an-issue/548752/3 "2010-08-01T01:23:22Z")
Do the people hinting at shenanigans address his editing of the Harvard Law Review and graduating magna? Tokenism? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2010, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript-an-issue/548752/4 "2010-08-01T01:27:38Z")
Its not simply that, of course. There was a time when higher office was sought by persons of the right sort, untainted by sordid ambitions. But this fellow has to claw his way to Harvard with the assistance of all manner of affirmative programs. Are there no perfectly good community colleges in Hawaii? What sort of “man of the people” behaves in such an unseemly fashion, which rather smacks of the _arriviste_, don’t you think? Its all very well to rise above one’s station, what America is all about, isn’t it? But it never quite washes off, now does it? ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2010, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript-an-issue/548752/5 "2010-08-01T01:32:52Z")
Well, let’s see. Bush’s, as I recall, was found in his National Guard records. Gore’s was dug up by the Post from somewhere. But neither of them were released by the school in question. Given that Obama was never in the military, it’s probably harder to find his school records than most, just because they wouldn’t be in any discoverable place. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2010, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript-an-issue/548752/6 "2010-08-01T01:43:04Z")
Harvard Law doesn’t have a letter grade system anyway, so I don’t know what the wingnuts think it would reveal. One thing we can assertain is that he’d have to be near the top of his class to be able to be editor of the HLR. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2010, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript-an-issue/548752/7 "2010-08-01T01:59:30Z")
It is somewhat interesting to not how desperate a lot of the wingers are to try to deny or “debunk” Obama’s intelligence. It’s like thy just can’t stand to believe that a black guy is smarter than they are. ---
**Author:** ![JeffB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeffb/32/188_2.png) [@JeffB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JeffB)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2010, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript-an-issue/548752/8 "2010-08-01T02:08:21Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > (2) if so, is that at all unusual? Are high level public figures’ educational records usually made public? > (3) if in fact that is unusual, was that Harvard’s decision or Obama’s? And what justification was given? It would be illegal (per the Federal Educational Rights and Privacy Act) for Harvard to release a transcript on their own. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2010, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript-an-issue/548752/9 "2010-08-01T02:15:55Z")
You should have asked him if _his_ transcript has been publicly released yet. Just because someone is elected to a public office, does that by necessity mean that everything they’ve ever done in their life needs to be made public? Where are Obama’s 7th grade essays, hmm??? I **demand** to see them at once! ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2010, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript-an-issue/548752/10 "2010-08-01T02:25:15Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It is somewhat interesting to not how desperate a lot of the wingers are to try to deny or “debunk” Obama’s intelligence. It’s like thy just can’t stand to believe that a black guy is smarter than they are. My understanding–could be wrong–of the complaint is that his grades from Occidental and Columbia prove that he would not have been accepted into Harvard Law if not for Affirmative Action. What _that_ proves, I don’t know. He certainly demonstrated that he was worth accepting. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2010, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript-an-issue/548752/11 "2010-08-01T02:43:09Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > My understanding–could be wrong–of the complaint is that his grades from Occidental and Columbia prove that he would not have been accepted into Harvard Law if not for Affirmative Action. What _that_ proves, I don’t know. From what I can tell, many conservatives are _itching_ to paint Obama as “dumb” in order to return the favor of eight years of George W. Bush (as in “see, you elected the REAL dumb guy!”). And to show that affirmative action is bad. And to demonstrate once and for all that his policies are based on unintelligent thought. (Though I thought some argued that not being an elite egghead was a GOOD thing…?) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2010, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript-an-issue/548752/12 "2010-08-01T02:54:54Z")
He left the race question blank on his Harvard application, so no affirmative action was involved. One thing I think a lot of the conspiracy loons and teabaggers don’t know, though, is that Barack Obama Sr. _also_ went to Harvard and got a Masters in Economics there. So Barack Jr. was a legacy, just like Dubya. If the teabaggers need a non-AA way for BHR Jr. to have gotten into Harvard, there it is. ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2010, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript-an-issue/548752/13 "2010-08-01T03:06:01Z")
Shit, he was a _legacy_? Why can’t we have a prez who wasn’t a legacy to some Ivy League place anyhow? Hell, if I’d known that, I’d’ve voted for…um… **thinks back** Never mind. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2010, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript-an-issue/548752/14 "2010-08-01T03:22:32Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It is somewhat interesting to not how desperate a lot of the wingers are to try to deny or “debunk” Obama’s intelligence. It’s like thy just can’t stand to believe that a black guy is smarter than they are. After all, righties never denigrated Bill Clinton nor his intelligence when he was in office. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2010, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript-an-issue/548752/15 "2010-08-01T03:28:33Z")
They denigrated his character, but never tried to call him dumb or deny his academic bona fides. You can’t fake being a Rhodes Scholar. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2010, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript-an-issue/548752/16 "2010-08-01T08:15:45Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > They denigrated his character, but never tried to call him dumb or deny his academic bona fides. You can’t fake being a Rhodes Scholar. Just a nitpick but they didn’t need to denigrate his character: he did a stellar job of that himself. Fortunately, America saw that the positives far outweighed the negatives. Even presidents are human. ---
**Author:** ![put\_down\_the\_sabre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/da6949/32.png) [@put\_down\_the\_sabre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/put_down_the_sabre)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2010, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript-an-issue/548752/17 "2010-08-01T10:08:29Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > He left the race question blank on his Harvard application, so no affirmative action was involved. > > One thing I think a lot of the conspiracy loons and teabaggers don’t know, though, is that Barack Obama Sr. _also_ went to Harvard and got a Masters in Economics there. So Barack Jr. was a legacy, just like Dubya. If the teabaggers need a non-AA way for BHR Jr. to have gotten into Harvard, there it is. The left don’t really want to play up this one, either: the ‘Obama came from _nothing_!’ narrative is a strong one. pdts ---
**Author:** ![Mekhazzio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b38774/32.png) [@Mekhazzio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mekhazzio)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2010, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript-an-issue/548752/18 "2010-08-01T11:35:15Z")
Obama _also_ hasn’t publically released his permission slip for that field trip in high school. I wonder what he’s trying to hide. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2010, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript-an-issue/548752/19 "2010-08-01T14:44:29Z")
Obama didn’t just burst on the academic scene at Harvard law school. He went to Cornell as an undergrad, and the private high school he went to in Hawaii, Punahou, is one of the top schools in the country. His mother was an academic, so it should be no surprise that education would have been a big part of his life. I’m not sure I’d say he came “from nothing”, considering his mother had a PhD, and he went to prep school as a youngster. Perhaps compared to Bush, you could say that, but not compared to most of us. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2010, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript-an-issue/548752/20 "2010-08-01T15:07:25Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > He went to Cornell as an undergrad, and the private high school he went to in Hawaii, Punahou, is one of the top schools in the country. . Think it was Columbia, not that that takes away from your point. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript-an-issue/548752.md?page=2)