# Obama's Harvard transcript - an issue? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 1, 2010, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript-an-issue/548752 "2010-08-01T00:52:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript-an-issue/548752/61 "2010-08-02T15:42:39Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > He can end this with one phone call. No, he can’t. The nutbags will always be able to come up with some stupid shit they can label “questions”. Only the nutbags themselves can end it, and it wouldn’t even take a phone call to do it. What do you think are the chances of that happening? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript-an-issue/548752/62 "2010-08-02T15:56:38Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > If something like this gets traction It’s been around for a couple of years and it’s not going to get traction. It’s a standard irrelevant political grumble and is no different from millions of other irrelevant complaints that get made about every politician. (When Obama was a candidate for president and a fairly new presence in national politics, his educational history might have been an issue. (Even then, absent something very serious it’s a stupid thing to base your vote on.) He’s the president _now_. Who cares what his grades were in college? Do you imagine that millions of voters would change their opinion of him based on his grades? That’s keeping in mind _again_ that he graduated magna cum laude. He was somewhere in the top 10 or 11 percent of his class, but not the top 1 percent. If his grades ever do come out, anybody who believes he scraped his way through grad school or got something he didn’t deserve because of affirmative action is likely to be disappointed. [Some further discussion on this issue, from March.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=556163) ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript-an-issue/548752/63 "2010-08-02T16:14:25Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Do you imagine that millions of voters would change their opinion of him based on his grades? I imagine that millions may think that he’s covering something up if a) it’s a ‘presidential best practice’ to reveal them (ie, have we seen them from our other recent presidents?), and b) he continues to take his principaled stand when there’s really no good reason to… unless of course there is a good reason and there’s something embarrassing in there. While I agree it’s mostly silly - anyone who doesn’t know what this president is all about hasn’t really been paying attention, and I doubt they would vote in the midterms. But politics and reason don’t always overlap 100%. The whiff of scandal and coverup is his choice, and it’s a foolish, unnecessary one, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript-an-issue/548752/64 "2010-08-02T16:17:28Z")
We have not seen other Presidents release their college transcripts. That’s not correct. We’ve seen transcripts, but they were not put out by the Presidents, they were found by others. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript-an-issue/548752/65 "2010-08-02T16:24:48Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > > [@Marley23](#): > > > > Do you imagine that millions of voters would change their opinion of him based on his grades? > > I imagine that millions may think that he’s covering something up if a) it’s a ‘presidential best practice’ to reveal them (ie, have we seen them from our other recent presidents?), and b) he continues to take his principaled stand when there’s really no good reason to… unless of course there is a good reason and there’s something embarrassing in there. > > While I agree it’s mostly silly - anyone who doesn’t know what this president is all about hasn’t really been paying attention, and I doubt they would vote in the midterms. But politics and reason don’t always overlap 100%. > > The whiff of scandal and coverup is his choice, and it’s a foolish, unnecessary one, IMHO. Foolish is taking any of there right wing witch hunters seriously. I think those who find this hunt useful are few and they should be embarrassed. You do not respond to people who are sniping at you. You legitimize it and they will continue with something else. They deserve no recognition. They have been playing this silly game for over a year and a half. They have an echo chamber that agrees this is valid. Only it is not. Perhaps you guys can tie him to Whitewater next. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript-an-issue/548752/66 "2010-08-02T16:30:11Z")
I was tempted to say that this is the height of absurdity. But then I remembered the Obama is a Muslim born in Kenya business. So at best, this is number three on the absurdity list. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript-an-issue/548752/67 "2010-08-02T16:36:03Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > I imagine that millions may think that he’s covering something up The only people who think he’s covering up his grades are the ones who think he’s hiding his birth certificate. It’s not going to become a larger issue. It’s been on the back burner for a while and it’s never going to come to a boil. Most of the public has no reason to give a shit. Seriously now: if you hate his policies, you don’t give a crap how he did in college 20-plus years ago. And if you like him, you also have no reason to care. > [@](#): > > if a) it’s a ‘presidential best practice’ to reveal them (ie, have we seen them from our other recent presidents?) I think this was explained upthread. They are not usually made public. To the degree we’ve seen the grades of other presidents and candidates, it’s because they were part of other files that became public. > [@](#): > > and b) he continues to take his principaled stand when there’s really no good reason to… There _is_ a good reason: the demands are never going to stop, so it’s better to ignore them. Giving in would send the message that he takes these complaints seriously and is willing have someone waste time dealing with them, which would prove this is an effective tactic for going after him. As such the requests would only increase. I’m in favor of disclosing any relevant information about a president or a candidate, but I don’t see the relevance of Obama’s college or law school grades. > [@](#): > > The whiff of scandal and coverup is his choice, and it’s a foolish, unnecessary one, IMHO. There’s no whiff of scandal. You are interpreting this as important when it is not. It’s something people who don’t like him use as a reason to complain about him or dismiss his intelligence. Good grades don’t make a genius, but if you want to call Obama stupid, you can’t do it based on his Harvard grades. This reminds me of the campaign: some people were so wrapped up in the day to day elements of the campaign that they didn’t see how stupid some of the arguments were. This is too stupid to take seriously. Here’s the late conservative blogger Dean Barnett on Obama’s college years: > [@](#): > > Generally, you earned admission to the Law Review because of a distinguished academic performance in your first year. But there were some members who got on the Law Review because they wrote good essays as part of their application process and in spite of mediocre grades. A notable subset of this latter category was minority students; a politically correct institution, the Law Review cared about diversity in its ranks. > […] > The only reason I bring this barely relevant history up is to show what a stud of a law student Barack Obama was. He graduated Harvard magna cum laude. This was one honor you unquestionably had to earn. It’s a very impressive feat. Back in Obama’s days at Harvard, more than 50 percent of the class graduated cum laude, a fact that made graduating “with honors” a meaningless accomplishment. But graduating magna was a different kettle of fish. Barack Obama graduated right near the top of his law school class. Barnett then goes on to contrast this with Obama “inept” campaign. The piece was written in late 2007, and we know how that worked out. Still, he acknowledges that Obama’s Harvard results were the real deal. [Here’s World Net Daily insinuating that Obama has not been forthcoming about his time at Harvard because he’s an Islamic sleeper candidate, and that he only got into Harvard and became law review president because of affirmative action.](http://www.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=74877) This is from September 2008. So you can see this stuff has been going around for years, like I said. There’s no reason to treat it seriously now. While looking for other examples of Grader nuttery [I found this brief New York Times article about Obama being elected president of the law review.](http://www.nytimes.com/1990/02/06/us/first-black-elected-to-head-harvard-s-law-review.html) ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript-an-issue/548752/68 "2010-08-02T16:42:25Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > Maybe so, but in my mind, the real danger isn’t whether the crackpots or conservatives or teapartiers (or if you’re 12, teabaggers) turn against his party and their policies. It’s whether the independents do That is all the more reason for Obama to want this “issue” to continue – insofar as the Republican leadership lacks the spine to publicly refudiate the whackadoodles, independents are less likely to shift toward them. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript-an-issue/548752/69 "2010-08-02T16:50:22Z")
How many of our desperately important “independents” are really Republicans too embarassed to admit it? ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript-an-issue/548752/70 "2010-08-02T17:22:18Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I think this was explained upthread. They are not usually made public. To the degree we’ve seen the grades of other presidents and candidates, it’s because they were part of other files that became public. I found [this](http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A37397-2000Mar18) piece which seems to back that up > [@](#): > > Gore has never released his transcripts, which were obtained independently by The Washington Post. Parts of them have been cited as well by Bill Turque, a Newsweek writer who has written a biography of Gore titled “Inventing Al Gore.” Of course, the next logical question is, why is the WaPo digging up Gore’s transcripts and not Obama’s, etc. But leaving that aside, it appears you’re right, it’s not a best practice to reveal them as candidate/politician. Or maybe [it is](http://www.nysun.com/new-york/obamas-years-at-columbia-are-a-mystery/85015/) > [@](#): > > Contributing to the mystery is the fact that nobody knows just how well Mr. Obama, unlike Senator McCain and most other major candidates for the past two elections, performed as a student. > > The Obama campaign has refused to release his college transcript, despite an academic career that led him to Harvard Law School and, later, to a lecturing position at the University of Chicago. The shroud surrounding his experience at Columbia contrasts with that of other major party nominees since 2000, all whom have eventually released information about their college performance or seen it leaked to the public. > > For better or worse, voters have taken an interest in candidates’ grades since 1999, when the New Yorker published President Bush’s transcript at Yale and disclosed that he was a C student. Mr. Bush had never portrayed himself as a brain, but many were surprised to learn the next year that his opponent, Vice President Gore, did not do much better at Harvard despite his intellectual image. When Senator Kerry’s transcript surfaced, reporters found that he actually had a slightly lower average at Yale than Mr. Bush did. Of course this was 2 years ago, and it hasn’t been a problem so far, which argues for your position. I guess we’ll have to see if this ends up getting traction. While the reflexive Obamabot response in this thread has been “no way”, I don’t think anyone can reasonably know for sure. PS And I don’t buy the ‘if he does, he validates the question’ line of thinking, either. His birth cert was questioned, he circulated the copy on the internet, and that satisfied most people (not the kooks, but they aren’t voting Dem anyway). He took it (mostly) off the table. That’s what he ought to do here. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript-an-issue/548752/71 "2010-08-02T17:23:51Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > There _is_ a good reason: the demands are never going to stop, so it’s better to ignore them. Giving in would send the message that he takes these complaints seriously and is willing have someone waste time dealing with them, which would prove this is an effective tactic for going after him. As such the requests would only increase. I’m in favor of disclosing any relevant information about a president or a candidate, but I don’t see the relevance of Obama’s college or law school grades. Not only that, it creates a precedent that would lead to “relevance creep”, by which anyone can at any time decree that any kind of records of any OTHER actual or potential candidate or officeholder are fair game for a demand to be made public, and that if not, it must be because there’s something to hide, which is backwards – the person demanding the information should be burdened with proving that there’s a valid reason they need it. (Plus I strongly suspect they’re not looking for evidence of lousy grades, but maybe fishing for any “It’s Whitey’s Fault 101” or “Seminar on the Obvious Superiority of Socialism 650B” coursework) ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript-an-issue/548752/72 "2010-08-02T17:30:50Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > While the reflexive Obamabot response in this thread … Way to raise your cred, man. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript-an-issue/548752/73 "2010-08-02T17:39:11Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > Of course, the next logical question is, why is the WaPo digging up Gore’s transcripts and not Obama’s, etc. I am sure they tried to get Obama’s. I believe the reason they found Gore’s was posted upthread. > [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > Or maybe [it is](http://www.nysun.com/new-york/obamas-years-at-columbia-are-a-mystery/85015/) > > > [@](#): > > > > Contributing to the mystery is the fact that nobody knows just how well Mr. Obama, unlike Senator McCain and most other major candidates for the past two elections, performed as a student. Unless I’ve forgotten something I think have similar information about Obama’s records and McCain’s. Searching around the 'net and past threads here, I saw that Obama had a 3.3 GPA at Columbia, where he did his last two undergrad years. And we know McCain was ranked 895 out of 899 at the Naval Academy. McCain didn’t go to graduate school because he was in the service. Obama did, and we know he graduated magna cum laude. So we have a pretty clear picture of how he did there relative to his peers. > [@](#): > > I guess we’ll have to see if this ends up getting traction. While the reflexive Obamabot response in this thread has been “no way”, I don’t think anyone can reasonably know for sure. The cites I provided show that there have been mutterings about this for at least two years. It unquestionably did not get traction during the campaign. Why would it matter now? ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript-an-issue/548752/74 "2010-08-02T18:40:36Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > It unquestionably did not get traction during the campaign. Why would it matter now? (Assuming you actually want an answer, that it’s not a hypothetical…) My guess, if it does end up mattering (note: I’m arguing that it COULD matter, which means it’s a RISK, which is why I’d release them to take it off the table)… anyway, if it does end up mattering, it could be that indy’s are far more disillusioned with him (and his party) now than they were in 2008. He doesn’t have the veneer of kryptonite that he had 2 years ago, and I think the coming beatdown in November will bear that out. He had the lowest approval rating ever for a president after one year, back in January. The Democrats are disillusioned with him (although the [lefty press](http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2010/07/30/4784189-first-thoughts-are-democrats-closing-the-gap) is doing their best to rectify that), the GOP hates his expansionist government, and the Independents aren’t big fans of the deficit. And of course it’s only been [getting worse](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_obama_job_approval-1044.html#polls). In my opinion, too big of a risk. Unless of course there’s fire where there is smoke. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript-an-issue/548752/75 "2010-08-02T18:52:37Z")
All I would say in response is that I think you’re misreading the political scene if you think this really poses a risk to him with the economy being where it is and the Gulf of Mexico being as petroleum-flavored as it is. And that you’re misreading the attitudes of the people who think Obama is hiding something. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript-an-issue/548752/76 "2010-08-02T18:56:59Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > > [@Marley23](#): > > > > I think this was explained upthread. They are not usually made public. To the degree we’ve seen the grades of other presidents and candidates, it’s because they were part of other files that became public. > > I found [this](http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A37397-2000Mar18) piece which seems to back that up > > Of course, the next logical question is, why is the WaPo digging up Gore’s transcripts and not Obama’s, etc. But leaving that aside, it appears you’re right, it’s not a best practice to reveal them as candidate/politician. Or maybe [it is](http://www.nysun.com/new-york/obamas-years-at-columbia-are-a-mystery/85015/) > > > [@](#): > > > > Contributing to the mystery is the fact that nobody knows just how well Mr. Obama, unlike Senator McCain and most other major candidates for the past two elections, performed as a student. > > > > The Obama campaign has refused to release his college transcript, despite an academic career that led him to Harvard Law School and, later, to a lecturing position at the University of Chicago. The shroud surrounding his experience at Columbia contrasts with that of other major party nominees since 2000, all whom have eventually released information about their college performance or **seen it leaked to the public.** \ > > \ (bolding mine) So what are you trying to say here? Your first cite offers agreement with \*\*Marlee23 \*\*that transcripts are not commonly released. Then you seem to imply something else (“it is”) although my bolded section of your cite doesn’t contradict the original assertion. Your “Oh, I have Obama’s best interests at heart, really I do” manner of addressing the subject rings rather hollow. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript-an-issue/548752/77 "2010-08-02T18:59:45Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > He can end this with one phone call. He’s silly, from a political standpoint, not to squash this issue, since it will only be a distraction and he needs all the focus he can get to fight the coming beatdown this Nov. > > Is it a matter of principle? Or is there something really embarrassing in there? He’s the only one who can prove one way or the other. Until he does, and to answer the OP, yes it’s an issue, and a war of choice. Not a smart move, for a guy who I thought was a master at this sort of thing. Why don’t you start a thread in ATMB proposing that instead of the mods banning trolls, we all respectfully respond to their posts just in case someone comes in and thinks that the act of banning them might cause some people to think we are all covering up the truth of the troll topic of your choice. See how that goes. I’d hope this crap is never even on the radar. There are real problems, and spending any effort at all on this and the next one and the one after that is a worse use of the President’s time than Jimmy Carter doing the tennis court schedules. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript-an-issue/548752/78 "2010-08-02T20:33:37Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > So what are you trying to say here? Your first cite offers agreement with \*\*Marlee23 \*\*that transcripts are not commonly released. Then you seem to imply something else (“it is”) although my bolded section of your cite doesn’t contradict the original assertion. > > Your “Oh, I have Obama’s best interests at heart, really I do” manner of addressing the subject rings rather hollow. Just because they aren’t commonly released doesn’t mean that they don’t get into the public domain. The cite I presented showed that they have, regularly, since, 1999. The fact that the media hasn’t dug up Obama’s yet means… well, you can draw your own conclusions on that one. As for his best interests: I’m probably one of very few moderates on this board, politically, on an SDMB that’s clearly laden with lefties (which is not necessarily a bad thing). I’d like to think I can look at this objectively. And since this is Great Debates, seems to me that my opinion should count as much as anyone’s here, especially since I’ve backed it up with more cites than anyone else in this thread. The only reasonable refutation (is that a word?) I’ve seen in this thread is that releasing the records would set a bad precedent, that if you give an inch they’ll take a mile, etc. Given the history of the last decade, combined with his stated desire to run the most [transparent](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/16/obamas-broken-promise-fed_n_500526.html) administration in our lifetimes; well, you tell me which claim rings hollow. Go back and look at the [approval/disapproval](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_obama_job_approval-1044.html) chart again. Do I think he’s done a poor job as president? You bet, especially fiscally. This puts me in line with a plurality of Americans (if not Dopers). Do I believe that a smarter politician would have taken this issue off the table, rather than run the risk that it damages his party in Nov? Yup. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript-an-issue/548752/79 "2010-08-02T20:48:52Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > Just because they aren’t commonly released doesn’t mean that they don’t get into the public domain. The cite I presented showed that they have, regularly, since, 1999. The fact that the media hasn’t dug up Obama’s yet means… well, you can draw your own conclusions on that one. It means nobody’s gotten a hold of them and his people never released them. > [@](#): > > The only reasonable refutation (is that a word?) I’ve seen in this thread is that releasing the records would set a bad precedent, that if you give an inch they’ll take a mile, etc. Given the history of the last decade, combined with his stated desire to run the most [transparent](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/16/obamas-broken-promise-fed_n_500526.html) administration in our lifetimes; well, you tell me which claim rings hollow. Even if he’d run as transparent an administration as the one he talked about, it would still be ridiculous to make a his college grades an issue. They’re just not important. And the problem is that everybody has already heard this song before. This is exactly the same as the birth certificate issue. There was no debate about his birth certificate _until he himself made it public_. Does that give you any insight into this issue? There was a rumor that his middle name was Muhammad, so he put his birth certificate online to dispell it. The next thing you know, there’s a whole swarm of people who have suddenly become experts on Hawaiian birth certificates, and until the men in white coats with the butterfly nets show up, they will argue that he was not really born in Hawaii. They argue that despite the two birth announcements that ran in local newspapers right after he was born, the fact that his mother was a citizen, and in spite of the birth certificate he put online himself, that the document proves the exact opposite of what it means and the exact opposite of the reason he made it public. Then the media started covering the issue, which made it self-sustaining and it did not go away no matter how thoroughly it was established that his birth certificate was real. So this has to be asked: who do you think is going to change their opinions about him based on releasing his grades from Harvard? > [@](#): > > Do I believe that a smarter politician would have taken this issue off the table, rather than run the risk that it damages his party in Nov? Yup. But that’s the point: the issue isn’t on the table. People are pissed off about the economy, about unemployment, deficits, the wars, and so many other things, and you think this is an issue of consequence that is going to hurt Obama and the Democrats in November - _and_ that if he released his grades it would go away forever? You’re kidding yourself. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript-an-issue/548752/80 "2010-08-02T20:56:14Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > > [@CannyDan](#): > > > > So what are you trying to say here? Your first cite offers agreement with \*\*Marlee23 \*\*that transcripts are not commonly released. Then you seem to imply something else (“it is”) although my bolded section of your cite doesn’t contradict the original assertion. > > > > Your “Oh, I have Obama’s best interests at heart, really I do” manner of addressing the subject rings rather hollow. > > Just because they aren’t commonly released doesn’t mean that they don’t get into the public domain. The cite I presented showed that they have, regularly, since, 1999. The fact that the media hasn’t dug up Obama’s yet means… well, you can draw your own conclusions on that one.\ No, you keep bringing it up, you tell us what conclusions are to be drawn. Otherwise I’m going to conclude that this whole transcript issue is just another disingenuous backhanded attack that anyone who is actually a moderate would reject out of hand. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript-an-issue/548752.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript-an-issue/548752.md?page=5)