# Obama's harvard Transcript? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 17, 2010, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript/532776 "2010-03-17T17:46:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript/532776/41 "2010-03-17T23:37:21Z")
I know what you are saying, **billfish678** , about the perception aspect of the thing. As factual background, however, there is a different process for getting on law review and getting an editorial board position. The process to get on law review is (everywhere I have seen) both anonymous and at least partially related to grades. After you spend your 2L year on law review, there is a selection process for the editorial board for the 3L year. That isn’t anonymous, and isn’t related to grades (again, everywhere I have seen). Being made editor-in-chief is a great honor, but unrelated to one’s GPA. To give you an idea of the anonymity aspect of the write-on competition, each of us on each of the three journals at the end of our 2L year were required to grade the write on competition for the 1L class. So we each got a packet of around 50 papers, with numbers not names. We filled in a score sheet by number, and returned it to the Law review admin person, who compiled the scores, and provided them to faculty, who then matched the scores with the student, and performed the calculation based on write-on score and GPA. We never saw the list connecting the students to the numbers, nor did we ever see a student’s GPA. Of course, this never stopped allegations. I remember laughing in someone’s face when they suggested there was racism in the process, because white graders were consciously preferencing what they could perceive as white writing. Out of everyone, I’d argue my write-on paper was probably the most identifiable, because I still have a habit of writing English-English rather than American-English (in construction and puntuation, not spelling). ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2010, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript/532776/42 "2010-03-18T00:20:36Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Harvard law school does not give out A thru F grades, or at least did not during the mid 80s. The grades are Pass, Pass with Honors, Pass with High Honors. Presumably there is also a not pass grade of some sort. Editor of the law review will be getting mostly High Honors. No, I did not go to Harvard, but a good friend who did was editor of the law review. I thought this was Yale. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2010, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript/532776/43 "2010-03-18T00:38:33Z")
According to the [Harvard Crimson](http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2008/9/26/harvard-law-school-adopts-pass-fail-grading/), harvard just adopted the pass/fail policy in 2009. Presumably, that would mean that they were still using letter grades when Obama attended. Not that it matters, he couldn’t have graduated _Magna_, gotten onto the editorial board of the _Harvard Review_, much less been elected President of the journal if his grades weren’t top drawer. Yes, **billfish** is correct that the teabaggers will accuse him of racial favoritism if his grades are less than perfect. Even if his transcript IS perfect, they will accuse him of cheating or creating a fake transcript. Their cognitive dissonance will not permot them to believe that his academic record could be legit (or, to be perfectly blunt, that a black guy is smarter than they are), so there’s really not much to be gained by releasing it. There is no possible configuration of grades that won’t be attacked. Still, if they’re so insistent on seeing Obama’s transcripts, let’s see Sarah Palin’s as well. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2010, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript/532776/44 "2010-03-18T00:49:56Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Do you have a cite for this? > > I mean, if this is going to be a serious debate, lets understand exactly what started it. Curse you, **John Mace** , for being the one to grab the “Cite?” shield and thus force **other** people to root around in the garbage heaps of [WorldNet Daily](http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=115127). This has been a recurrent theme ever since the 2008 campaign, though. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2010, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript/532776/45 "2010-03-18T00:57:23Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > According to the [Harvard Crimson](http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2008/9/26/harvard-law-school-adopts-pass-fail-grading/), Hold it right there. Crimson is a fancy word for red. Red is another word for COMMIE! How come O’Reilly and Beck didn’t jump on that? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2010, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript/532776/46 "2010-03-18T01:13:29Z")
That Wingnut Daily article, as sleazy and insinuating as it is, doesn’t say anything specifically about Limbaugh or Beck. I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if either one had said it. Limbaugh has a longstanding resentment of both black people and academics, and Beck…well, it wouldn’t surprise me if Beck said that Obama was an alien. (I mean that literally. If Glenn Beck actually, literally accused Barack Obama of being an alien tomorrow, I would not be a bit surprised. I don’t think many other people would either), but it has not yet been cited in this thread that either of them actually has. I can testify from my own occasional, morbidly fascinated perusals of right wing media, that Obama’s college transcripts are a somewhat standard topic on the AM dial and starboard websites. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2010, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript/532776/47 "2010-03-18T01:50:43Z")
> [@DtC](#): > > That Wingnut Daily article, as sleazy and insinuating as it is, doesn’t say anything specifically about Limbaugh or Beck. Yeah, sorry, I didn’t mean to be presenting that link as a confirmation of that specific claim: I thought the call of “Cite?” referred to the broader issue of whether the “Obama hasn’t released his Harvard transcript” complaint really was commonly found in wingnut media in general. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2010, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript/532776/48 "2010-03-18T02:31:04Z")
> [@Atomicktom](#): > > I thought this was Yale. I am certain that my buddy went Harvard and was an editor on law review, I imagine there are several editors. As I know nobody who ever went to Yale law, I’m pretty sure that in the mid 80s, the pass, honors, high honors system was being used, I can recall the conversation from 1984 where he described it to me while justifiably bragging about his admission. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2010, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript/532776/49 "2010-03-18T05:26:46Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Begeezus. > > This is the last time I am going to make this point. I did not say he wasnt qualified. I did not say he didnt make damn good grades. I certainly wont say (without some evidence) that he did a poor job of actually filling the position. I understand you are talking about what Obama’s opponents are saying and not stating your own opinion. Ok? That said, I think the information we DO have shows he was an exceptional student. I don’t think he’ll disclose his grades, and Harvard won’t either. But the school confirmed his graduation honors, so we know he was one of the best students in his class, and that’s the end of that. As far as the Law Review goes, knowing that he was performing so well at the school and had already been chosen to edit, there is no reasonable basis for the idea he got the job as an affirmative action hire. We’re not dealing with reasonable people, however, and you’re right - it can’t be proven with 100 percent certainty. But based on the information available, I’d say those claims can be dismissed. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2010, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript/532776/50 "2010-03-18T05:59:34Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > That Wingnut Daily article, as sleazy and insinuating as it is, doesn’t say anything specifically about Limbaugh or Beck. > [@Kimstu](#): > > Yeah, sorry, I didn’t mean to be presenting that link as a confirmation of that specific claim: I thought the call of “Cite?” referred to the broader issue of whether the “Obama hasn’t released his Harvard transcript” complaint really was commonly found in wingnut media in general. That’s okay. The OP speaks of “right-wing radio talk show hosts ( **like** Beck and O’Reilly),” not _such as_ [Beck and O’Reilly]. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2010, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript/532776/51 "2010-03-18T07:10:57Z")
Weirdly, Dan Quayle never released his undergrad transcripts. I only find it strange in that it is hard to imagine what could be so bad about undergrad that it would embarrass you umpty-ump years later. I for one would like to see Sara Palin’s transcripts. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2010, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript/532776/52 "2010-03-18T08:16:28Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > …well, it wouldn’t surprise me if Beck said that Obama was an alien. (I mean that literally. If Glenn Beck actually, literally accused Barack Obama of being an alien tomorrow, I would not be a bit surprised. I don’t think many other people would either), but it has not yet been cited in this thread that either of them actually has. Well, in the sense that “Alien” means “non-citizen”… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2010, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript/532776/53 "2010-03-18T13:41:21Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > That’s okay. The OP speaks of “right-wing radio talk show hosts ( **like** Beck and O’Reilly),” not _such as_ [Beck and O’Reilly]. > > 😃 Is the person in the article a “right wing talk radio host like Beck and O’Reilly”? I mean are we debating why some nobody said something stupid, or is this really something the guys with wide audiences are talking about? ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript/532776/54 "2010-03-21T20:44:07Z")
> [@](#): > > Paul in Qatar Weirdly, Dan Quayle never released his undergrad transcripts. And both Quayle and Obama both have had some spelling issues 🙂 > [@](#): > > The ABC story on Obama’s basketball picks consisted of highlights from corporate cousin ESPN’s session with Obama as he filled out a big bracket chart, and World News included Obama’s spelling challenge. “Should be an R in there,” ESPN’s Andy Katz corrected Obama upon spotting how the President had misspelled “Syracuse” as “Sycacuse.” > > **Update** They dont’t show Obama writing the word Syracuse, it is replaced with ESPN animation, (at 1:26). Obama comes in after the animation and says “we’ve got Syracuse here” (word Syracuse is already written). The Obama mistake is pointed out later in the video by the EPSN reporter (at 2:44), The above photo is exactly what Obama wrote [http://hotairpundit.blogspot.com/2010/03/obama-misspells-syracuse-on-his-ncaa.html](http://hotairpundit.blogspot.com/2010/03/obama-misspells-syracuse-on-his-ncaa.html) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript/532776/55 "2010-03-21T22:17:56Z")
That’s a typo, not a spelling mistake. ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript/532776/56 "2010-03-21T23:06:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\*Diogenes the Cynic \*\* > > That’s a typo, not a spelling mistake. It was handwritten, a typo is when you make a typing error and hit the wrong key. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript/532776/57 "2010-03-22T01:43:04Z")
Handwritten equivalent. Same difference. An unintentional misplacement of a letter. Obviously it’s not a spelling mistake. That would make no phonetic sense, plus, it’s asinine to suggest that Obama doesn’t know how to spell “Syracuse.” ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript/532776/58 "2010-03-22T02:35:47Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > plus, it’s asinine to suggest that Obama doesn’t know how to spell “Syracuse.” But it isn’t asinine to suggest that Quayle didn’t know how to spell tomatoe? ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript/532776/59 "2010-03-22T02:43:31Z")
Of course not. It wasn’t asinine to suggest Quayle didn’t know how to spell _potatoe_. 😃 ETA: Let’s call the whole thing off. ---
**Author:** ![LilShieste](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9f8e36/32.png) [@LilShieste](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilShieste)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript/532776/60 "2010-03-22T02:49:03Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > [http://hotairpundit.blogspot.com/2010/03/obama-misspells-syracuse-on-his-ncaa.html](http://hotairpundit.blogspot.com/2010/03/obama-misspells-syracuse-on-his-ncaa.html) Come on, that’s totally photoshopped. I mean, that red arrow doesn’t even _look_ real. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript/532776.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-harvard-transcript/532776.md?page=4)