# Obama's hypocrisy over election **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 17, 2016, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-hypocrisy-over-election/774925 "2016-12-17T13:18:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-hypocrisy-over-election/774925/21 "2016-12-19T17:32:33Z")
“In the closing days of the 1980 presidential campaign, while trailing Ronald Reagan in the polls, Jimmy Carter sent a political ally, industrialist Armand Hammer, to a secret meeting with Soviet ambassador Anatoly Dobrynin at the embassy in Washington. Hammer asked the Soviets to help Carter win votes in key states by allowing Jewish “refuseniks” to emigrate to Israel.” Sounds like a laudable humanitarian effort, right up Carter’s alley. How exactly would it constitute election tampering? If “Michael Regan” is saying that it is unethical for presidents to do good, since by doing so they might increase their popularity, my head just might asplode. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-hypocrisy-over-election/774925/22 "2016-12-19T17:43:27Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > They spelled Michael Reagan’s name correctly on the NEWSMAX site. Maybe it was a typo? > > \*Fast-forward to 2016. The Democrats are desperate to blame their election loss on Russian interference. President Obama has ordered a complete investigation, and says he wants a report on his desk before he leaves office. Well, Mr. President, I wanted you to have all the information, including how the Democrats tried to manipulate U.S. elections in 1980 and 1984 — with the help of the Russians. > > Karma really sucks, doesn’t it? > > Especially if you’re a Democrat. > > Michael Reagan, the eldest son of President Reagan, is a Newsmax TV analyst. A syndicated columnist and author, he chairs The Reagan Legacy Foundation. Michael is an in-demand speaker with Premiere speaker’s bureau.\* > > [http://www.newsmax.com/Reagan/democrats-russia-ronald-reagan/2016/12/13/id/763730/](http://www.newsmax.com/Reagan/democrats-russia-ronald-reagan/2016/12/13/id/763730/) Thanks for verifying the attribution. Apparently Ron Reagan Jr. got all the brains in the family. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-hypocrisy-over-election/774925/23 "2016-12-19T18:41:58Z")
I’m sorry but talking people into voting your way isn’t “rigging”, “manipulating” or “hacking” an election. Even if you lie, which, apparently, the Russians didn’t do. They got Wikileaks to publish untampered DNC emails whose accuracy isn’t in question. Telling the truth is called “journalism”, not “election rigging”, even if those truths are uncomfortable. And even if you lie, that’s no different from what millions of Americans do to each other every election year. It’s not even close to “interfering”. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-hypocrisy-over-election/774925/24 "2016-12-19T18:47:26Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > I’m sorry but talking people into voting your way isn’t “rigging”, “manipulating” or “hacking” an election. Even if you lie, which, apparently, the Russians didn’t do. > > They got Wikileaks to publish untampered DNC emails whose accuracy isn’t in question. Telling the truth is called “journalism”, not “election rigging”, even if those truths are uncomfortable. > > And even if you lie, that’s no different from what millions of Americans do to each other every election year. It’s not even close to “interfering”. The Russians accomplished what Nixon attempted to with the Watergate break-in, and now with posts like this, we’re being told that the Russians did us a public service. Guess it is time that we re-evaluate Nixon’s place in history. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-hypocrisy-over-election/774925/25 "2016-12-19T18:55:32Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > The Russians accomplished what Nixon attempted to with the Watergate break-in, and now with posts like this, we’re being told that the Russians did us a public service. > > Guess it is time that we re-evaluate Nixon’s place in history. I notice you didn’t respond or refer to my post at all. Did you mean to quote it? Nixon bugged hotel rooms. Nixon resigned for bugging hotel rooms. Not for rigging the election. Say what you will about the hack of Podesta’s email. It could be the biggest crime in human history. But hacking an email server and telling people about the contents is not, and never will be, election rigging. period. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-hypocrisy-over-election/774925/26 "2016-12-19T19:15:10Z")
Rig it? Probably not. Got lucky? Maybe. About the only actual thing with real political impact revealed was the DNC’s effort to stop Bernie. Bernie people were enraged by it, some swearing that they would never vote for Hillary even if she was running against Il Douche. Bunch of people I personally know swore that oath, but most came around. But not all, bless their idjit hearts. So: were there 80,000 or so Bernie voters who boycotted Hillary in those crucial swing states? In that case, yes, the doc dumps swayed the election. If all the Bernie bots came around and saw the Darkness, then no. I have no idea, and no idea where to get an idea. But yes, it could have happened. More likely, I think, it was the Comey Bomb. But it sure didn’t help, and that matters. Anyway you slice it, it affected her vote. And she _still_ got 3 million more votes than he did. Now, do I hold Trump responsible? Was he “in on it”? Oh, _hell_, no! A veteran KGB guy _uses_ a useful idiot, he doesn’t tell a shit-for-brains motor mouth about a secret plot. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-hypocrisy-over-election/774925/27 "2016-12-19T19:18:33Z")
You are essentially arguing a straw man. There are a few poorly informed people out there who think the term “Russia rigging the election” has to do with tampering with ballots. Everyone else knows that it is shorthand for Russia conducting a type of psychological warfare that involves espionage and disclosing of secrets for the purpose of having an election turn out a certain way. If you can think of a short phrase that succinctly summarizes “Russia conducting a type of psychological warfare that involves espionage and disclosing of secrets for the purpose of having an election turn out a certain way” then please let us know. For the mean time, I think “Russia hacking the election” is a close enough phrase to let us know the subject under discussion, even if the phrase can’t be taken literally. Shoot, there’s lots of phrases that don’t hold up under this type of literalism. “Common-sense Republican” for example. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-hypocrisy-over-election/774925/28 "2016-12-19T19:26:39Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > The Russians accomplished what Nixon attempted to with the Watergate break-in, and now with posts like this, we’re being told that the Russians did us a public service. > > Guess it is time that we re-evaluate Nixon’s place in history. _President Nixon. Now more than ever._ 😃 ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-hypocrisy-over-election/774925/29 "2016-12-19T19:33:37Z")
_Dead, rested and ready!_ ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-hypocrisy-over-election/774925/30 "2016-12-19T19:34:30Z")
I think the main problem was that the leaked DNC emails confirmed that they were in the tank for Hillary from day one. So the Sanders zealots simply stayed home on election day. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-hypocrisy-over-election/774925/31 "2016-12-19T19:57:36Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > If you can think of a short phrase that succinctly summarizes “Russia conducting a type of psychological warfare that involves espionage and disclosing of secrets for the purpose of having an election turn out a certain way” then please let us know. For the mean time, I think “Russia hacking the election” is a close enough phrase to let us know the subject under discussion, even if the phrase can’t be taken literally. “Psychological warfare … for the purposes of having an election turn out a certain way” describes _all_ election spending by all candidates, their respective parties, and unaffiliated PACs, in addition to the vast majority of publications in print, online or otherwise. “Some Russians hacked John Podesta’s email server” is the only thing here that isn’t 100% routine in American politics, and what do you know “some Russians hacked John Podesta’s email server” is a _far_ more accurate way to describe what happened than “the election was hacked”. But then we’d have a page 5 story of interest only to political wonks instead of this front page blockbuster it has been made out to be. We just recently had a controversy over “news” organizations making such world-shattering headlines out of such a dearth of fact. We called them “fake news”, but when NPR and CBS does it it’s just “a succinct summary”? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-hypocrisy-over-election/774925/32 "2016-12-19T20:00:24Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > You are essentially arguing a straw man. There are a few poorly informed people out there who think the term “Russia rigging the election” has to do with tampering with ballots. Everyone else knows that it is shorthand for Russia conducting a type of psychological warfare that involves espionage and disclosing of secrets for the purpose of having an election turn out a certain way. > > If you can think of a short phrase that succinctly summarizes “Russia conducting a type of psychological warfare that involves espionage and disclosing of secrets for the purpose of having an election turn out a certain way” then please let us know. For the mean time, I think “Russia hacking the election” is a close enough phrase to let us know the subject under discussion, even if the phrase can’t be taken literally. > > Shoot, there’s lots of phrases that don’t hold up under this type of literalism. “Common-sense Republican” for example. No, that’s not it. Russian propaganda vs. Russian hacking is a big difference in how things are perceived. The propaganda of calling it hacking is misleading. They phished some emails. They did not hack an election. Labeling it as such is just more fake news. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-hypocrisy-over-election/774925/33 "2016-12-19T20:03:49Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > No, that’s not it. Russian propaganda vs. Russian hacking is a big difference in how things are perceived. The propaganda of calling it hacking is misleading. They phished some emails. As I pointed out over the GQ thread, “social engineering” and “hacking” are terms that are frequently used together. Just google it. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-hypocrisy-over-election/774925/34 "2016-12-19T20:04:24Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Rig it? Probably not. Got lucky? Maybe. > > About the only actual thing with real political impact revealed was the DNC’s effort to stop Bernie. Bernie people were enraged by it, some swearing that they would never vote for Hillary even if she was running against Il Douche. Bunch of people I personally know swore that oath, but most came around. But not all, bless their idjit hearts. > > So: were there 80,000 or so Bernie voters who boycotted Hillary in those crucial swing states? In that case, yes, the doc dumps swayed the election. If all the Bernie bots came around and saw the Darkness, then no. I have no idea, and no idea where to get an idea. But yes, it could have happened. More likely, I think, it was the Comey Bomb. But it sure didn’t help, and that matters. Anyway you slice it, it affected her vote. And she _still_ got 3 million more votes than he did. > > Now, do I hold Trump responsible? Was he “in on it”? Oh, _hell_, no! A veteran KGB guy _uses_ a useful idiot, he doesn’t tell a shit-for-brains motor mouth about a secret plot. Finally someone with a bit of brains and honesty. Now if you were in the Pit you’d have the unhinged in a triggered frenzy for not towing the party line. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-hypocrisy-over-election/774925/35 "2016-12-19T20:05:24Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > As I pointed out over the GQ thread, “social engineering” and “hacking” are terms that are frequently used together. Just google it. Sure. So are you saying the Russians hacked the election and The Donald is responsible? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-hypocrisy-over-election/774925/36 "2016-12-19T20:08:14Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > “Psychological warfare … for the purposes of having an election turn out a certain way” describes _all_ election spending by all candidates, their respective parties, and unaffiliated PACs, in addition to the vast majority of publications in print, online or otherwise. What complete nonsense. Next you’ll be saying that ISIL propaganda is indistinguishable from the BBC evening broadcasts. > [@](#): > > “Some Russians hacked John Podesta’s email server” is the only thing here that isn’t 100% routine in American politics, and what do you know “some Russians hacked John Podesta’s email server” is a _far_ more accurate way to describe what happened than “the election was hacked”. But then we’d have a page 5 story of interest only to political wonks instead of this front page blockbuster it has been made out to be. Oh, I see. It’s a grand conspiracy to make this story more important than it really is. Perhaps the Illuminati is behind it. > [@](#): > > We just recently had a controversy over “news” organizations making such world-shattering headlines out of such a dearth of fact. We called them “fake news”, but when NPR and CBS does it it’s just “a succinct summary”? Look, just because you can’t tell the journalistic difference between “Pope endorses Trump” and an NPR report on how much kale is sold in gentrifying neighborhoods, please don’t ask me to explain it. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-hypocrisy-over-election/774925/37 "2016-12-19T20:10:01Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Sure. So are you saying the Russians hacked the election and The Donald is responsible? I think I’ve explained my position quite clearly and don’t need anyone to try to put words in my mouth. See the half dozen threads on this topic that I’ve posted in if you want to know what I think. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-hypocrisy-over-election/774925/38 "2016-12-19T20:16:11Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Shoot, there’s lots of phrases that don’t hold up under this type of literalism. “Common-sense Republican” for example. Another example is “Non-corrupt Democrat”. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-hypocrisy-over-election/774925/39 "2016-12-19T20:46:21Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Finally someone with a bit of brains and honesty. Now if you were in the Pit you’d have the unhinged in a triggered frenzy for not towing the party line. That’s “toeing the line”, as old timey bare knuckle fighters were supposed to do. And I have said exactly this several times with no serious repercussions. Not even much in the way of comment, IIRC. But thanks for the compliment, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-hypocrisy-over-election/774925/40 "2016-12-19T21:02:53Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > What complete nonsense. Next you’ll be saying that ISIL propaganda is indistinguishable from the BBC evening broadcasts. No, but most news organizations also publish editorials, advertising, and other propaganda, and that’s what [psychological warfare](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_warfare) _is_. > [@Ravenman](#): > > Oh, I see. It’s a grand conspiracy to make this story more important than it really is. Perhaps the Illuminati is behind it. Yes, clearly the Illuminati must be involved for media organizations to hype up an inaccurate fear-based narrative to boost ratings. That never happens outside of conspiracy theories. :rolleyes: > [@Ravenman](#): > > Look, just because you can’t tell the journalistic difference between “Pope endorses Trump” and an NPR report on how much kale is sold in gentrifying neighborhoods, please don’t ask me to explain it. So, in your opinion, “Russia hacks the US election” is _more_ like the latest sales numbers for kale and _less_ like “the Pope endorses Trump”? :dubious: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-hypocrisy-over-election/774925.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-hypocrisy-over-election/774925.md?page=3)