# Obama's Jobs Speech **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 6, 2011, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-jobs-speech/595442 "2011-09-06T23:28:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2011, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-jobs-speech/595442/121 "2011-09-09T15:36:01Z")
Obama keeps talking essentially the same line “vote for my bill, I don’t know what’s in it yet (it hasn’t been written), but it will cost a LOT of money” Really, Mr. President? I am reminded of the classic scene in the movie “The Wizard of Oz”-when Dorothy and her friends finall get to see the wizard: “pay no attention to that man behind the curtain”. Sorry, Mr. President, your time is up…bye. We’ve had three years of no leadership and no direction, time for a change (no, not "Hope and Change"© ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2011, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-jobs-speech/595442/122 "2011-09-09T15:45:39Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Obama keeps talking essentially the same line “vote for my bill, I don’t know what’s in it yet (it hasn’t been written), but it will cost a LOT of money” > Really, Mr. President? > I am reminded of the classic scene in the movie “The Wizard of Oz”-when Dorothy and her friends finall get to see the wizard: “pay no attention to that man behind the curtain”. > Sorry, Mr. President, your time is up..bye. We’ve had three years of no leadership and no direction, time for a change (no, not “Hope and Change”(c) What are you babbling about? Obama laid out particular proposals, AND a price tag, AND HOW it was paid for. Did you watch the same speech as everyone else? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2011, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-jobs-speech/595442/123 "2011-09-09T15:53:02Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Obama keeps talking essentially the same line “vote for my bill, I don’t know what’s in it yet (it hasn’t been written), but it will cost a LOT of money” > Really, Mr. President? > I am reminded of the classic scene in the movie “The Wizard of Oz”-when Dorothy and her friends finall get to see the wizard: “pay no attention to that man behind the curtain”. > Sorry, Mr. President, your time is up..bye. We’ve had three years of no leadership and no direction, time for a change (no, not “Hope and Change”(c) Sounds like you wrote that last week. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2011, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-jobs-speech/595442/124 "2011-09-09T16:08:22Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Because it worked for Clinton? The 2010 election vastly improved the president’s hopes of reelection. iMO I rather doubt that the political process got easier for Clinton after the GOP took over Congress. By “political process” I mean getting legislation passed. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2011, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-jobs-speech/595442/125 "2011-09-09T16:16:50Z")
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > What are you babbling about? > > Obama laid out particular proposals, AND a price tag, AND HOW it was paid for. Did you watch the same speech as everyone else? It’s paid for by spending cuts in future years - which historically fail to actually materialize. Skepticism about this point would be warranted, and I want to see the actual details. Which we don’t have, since there isn’t a bill anyone in the public or even most members of Congress have seen. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2011, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-jobs-speech/595442/126 "2011-09-09T16:17:27Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > He used that ‘hurry up and pass the bill before anyone gets a chance to discuss it’ a couple of times. He must be getting desperate. Well, we have to hurry up and pass it. How else to see what’s in it? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2011, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-jobs-speech/595442/127 "2011-09-09T16:22:05Z")
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > Wait, so now you don’t want to cut stuff? I certainly do. And it would sure help if that twit in the Oval Office didn’t try to jack up spending by $450 billion and shove the responsibility off on someone else. This is an act of political cowardice. Obama wants the credit for increasing spending without having to make the tough choices he talked about in his speech. If and when this passes, it won’t be his fault if it is loaded up with pork and earmarks. It won’t be his fault if somebody else can’t take the heat for significant spending cuts. It won’t be his fault if somebody else can’t clean up his mess. Best case scenario is if it isn’t his fault because he isn’t in office anymore. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2011, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-jobs-speech/595442/128 "2011-09-09T16:24:47Z")
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > Oh get off it. You’re better than that. I am utterly baffled as to what you could possibly be basing that on. The speech was of course a complete waste of time, we know what the Republicans are going to say, hell they’ve been repeating that “the stimulus was a failure” mantra for so long that by now it is taken as truth. ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2011, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-jobs-speech/595442/129 "2011-09-09T16:29:44Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > Do you know anyone who got relief from the government for underwater mortgages? I know plenty of banks that got relief from the government for underwater mortgages, but no actual homeowners. If billions are being spent for this purpose, where the fuck is my share? I haven’t gotten a dime, and my house is worth literally 25% of its appraised value at the time I bought it. As someone who has tried to do so (home value \<50% of original now), the qualification window is a very thin needle, loaded with “oh, we’re so sorry” trip-wires. In my case, because we also have a second mortgage carried by a _separate_ lender than the primary, we fail for refinancing on anything. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2011, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-jobs-speech/595442/130 "2011-09-09T18:10:49Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I certainly do. And it would sure help if that twit in the Oval Office didn’t try to jack up spending by $450 billion and shove the responsibility off on someone else. > > This is an act of political cowardice. Obama wants the credit for increasing spending without having to make the tough choices he talked about in his speech. Or he could be, you know, listening to mainstream economics, which says not to cut demand in a recession and instead schedule those cuts for the future. But I guess since Republicans don’t believe in science anymore, that idea might not have occurred to you. When Obama announces exactly how he’ll pay for it in the coming weeks, will that satisfy you? I expect not, as you’ll have forgotten your protestations here and move on to telling us how raising taxes on the rich is the real cause of our economic problems. > [@Shodan](#): > > Best case scenario is if it isn’t his fault because he isn’t in office anymore. No, it’s only the Republicans who believe that a President can’t be held responsible for effects he creates after his term in office ends. The rest of the world is perfectly comfortable with that theory of responsibility. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2011, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-jobs-speech/595442/131 "2011-09-09T19:26:55Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Why don’t you want ambitious people? Ambitious people are _good_ for the economy, I thought. I want them. But your logic still does not follow. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2011, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-jobs-speech/595442/132 "2011-09-09T19:41:58Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Or he could be, you know, listening to mainstream economics, which says not to cut demand in a recession and instead schedule those cuts for the future. But I guess since Republicans don’t believe in science anymore, that idea might not have occurred to you. There is economics and then there is political science. I would have no issue with scheduling payments at the back end if I had any confidence that they would actually be made. Our political system sorta sucks at this - proof of that is in an accumulated multi-trillion dollar debt that both parties have had a hand in running up. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2011, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-jobs-speech/595442/133 "2011-09-09T19:47:33Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > There is economics and then there is political science. > > I would have no issue with scheduling payments at the back end if I had any confidence that they would actually be made. Our political system sorta sucks at this - proof of that is in an accumulated multi-trillion dollar debt that both parties have had a hand in running up. And if the claim were that we should be skeptical of Congress’ ability to lock in cuts before they actually make them, I would be with you fully. It is a very difficult task and we should be very skeptical of those claims until they actually come to fruition. But I was responding to **Shodan’s** different and incorrect claim that the goal of the timing is to shove responsibility onto others. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2011, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-jobs-speech/595442/134 "2011-09-09T19:56:41Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Or he could be, you know, listening to mainstream economics, which says not to cut demand in a recession and instead schedule those cuts for the future. No, that would imply that Obama was a Keynesian, instead of a big-spending liberal blowhard with no original ideas. > [@](#): > > But I guess since Republicans don’t believe in science anymore, that idea might not have occurred to you. No, it just means I have not drunk the Flavor-aid. > [@](#): > > When Obama announces exactly how he’ll pay for it in the coming weeks, will that satisfy you? He said in his speech how he was going to pay for it - he isn’t. He’s shuffling off the debt onto the super committee. IOW, he is doing what he can to fuck up the debt ceiling deal. I already gave you the quote, which is this - > [@](#): > > The agreement we passed in July will cut government spending by about $1 trillion over the next 10 years. It also charges this Congress to come up with an additional $1.5 trillion in savings by Christmas. Tonight, I am asking you to increase that amount so that it covers the full cost of the American Jobs Act. Next time try reading for comprehension. > [@](#): > > I expect not, as you’ll have forgotten your protestations here and move on to telling us how raising taxes on the rich is the real cause of our economic problems. If you are going to make shit up, try to make the shit correspond at least a tiny bit to reality. If possible. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2011, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-jobs-speech/595442/135 "2011-09-09T20:09:09Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Next time try reading for comprehension. Quoted for irony. If you kept reading just past the part you selectively quoted (which you probably did, but chose not to quote), you’ll see this: > [@](#): > > **And a week from Monday, I’ll be releasing a more ambitious deficit plan – a plan that will not only cover the cost of this jobs bill, but stabilize our debt in the long run**. He then summarizes that plan, which will include: additional spending cuts including changes to Medicare and Medicaid, raising taxes on the wealthy, and reforming the corporate tax code to cut deductions while lowering the rate. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2011, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-jobs-speech/595442/136 "2011-09-09T20:28:06Z")
There is a critical gamble here. He explicitly asks for the public help, a general clamor to show the Pubbies that their position is not so solid as they would like to believe. And they do believe it, they do believe that Obama is a spent force, that he has nothing. If that public clamor does not materialize, then he’s totally boned. As are we. Hell, they were flat out laughing at him So do it. Take the minute, e-mail your Congressvarmint, your Senator, most especially if they happen to be Pubbies. My Rep is Kieth Ali Muhammed bin Ellision, my Senators Klobuchar and Franken, so I’m preaching to the choir. But still. Do it. Now’s a pretty good time. Real soon would still be OK. ---
**Author:** ![Smitty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Smitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smitty)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2011, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-jobs-speech/595442/137 "2011-09-09T20:28:24Z")
Obama’s speeches are kind of like Tyler Perry’s movies. One is pretty much like the other. If you liked the last one, you will like the next one. If you didn’t, there won’t be anything to win you over. Politically, I don’t see this helping him. This speech is not going to win over any converts. If he would have proposed something new and big, then maybe. But this was pretty thin gruel. I realize that this was pure political theater to allow him to pull a Truman and rail against Congress, but all this has been said before. He has been whining about Congress for a while now, and his approval rating keeps slipping. Outside of liberal wishful thinking, I don’t think this will benefit him. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2011, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-jobs-speech/595442/138 "2011-09-09T20:47:35Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > I want them. But your logic still does not follow. Actually, it’s perfectly sound. It’s easy to invest all variety of romantic ideas in “coming to America to taste freedom” etc. but the main incentive is simple economics. There are jobs there, which means tightening the border thwarts (though how effectively is a matter of debate) not only job-seeking immigrants but worker-seeking employers who, by all indication, will not (or at best grudgingly) hire native-born Americans as substitutes, for work the native-born Americans will not (or at best grudgingly) do. But I see no indication that the Half Sigma blogger (or Chen019, who cited him, and may BE him, for all I know) has thought that deeply about the issue. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2011, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-jobs-speech/595442/139 "2011-09-09T21:12:59Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > > > :rolleyes: Ah. Again it’s all the fault of the brown people. > > You know, Der Trihs, I have agreed with you a lot on these boards, often when few others would. But when you respond to a complaint that arguments that anyone who opposes illegal immigration is called a racist, by playing the racist card, you do no one any good. The correct response would be to cite some fact or figure indicating that illegal immigration is not the cause of our job woes, and then to challenge the person you are responding to to come up with some fact or figure that supports their contention. If they can’t or won’t, THEN you can point out that all that is left in the way of “argument” is racism. Have you ever actually read **Chen019**? At least the result of what I said was just some squabbling over my posting style and not a derailment into several pages of arguing over race. > [@Smitty](#): > > Outside of liberal wishful thinking, I don’t think this will benefit him. What do liberals have to do with it? Liberals despise Obama. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2011, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-jobs-speech/595442/140 "2011-09-09T21:18:26Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > What do liberals have to do with it? Liberals despise Obama. I don’t think despise is the right word. We’re disappointed with him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-jobs-speech/595442.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-jobs-speech/595442.md?page=8)