# Obama's memorability among presidents in 100 years time? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 25, 2016, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-memorability-among-presidents-in-100-years-time/750171 "2016-03-25T22:30:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-memorability-among-presidents-in-100-years-time/750171/101 "2016-03-31T12:05:04Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > As valid as that argument is, it’s not very magnanimous and they reaped what they sowed as a result. Which is why I am not going to stand in the way of Republicans reaping what they sowed in Congress. I think Democrats should treat them the same way they treated Obama; shut them out. Let them be magnanimous in defeat. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-memorability-among-presidents-in-100-years-time/750171/102 "2016-03-31T12:15:25Z")
Ah, but there’s one sure way to end obstruction: be too popular to obstruct. Reagan used to be able to bend Congress to his will just by going out and giving speeches. Clinton knew how to play them as well. Obama just never had the necessary skills. The next Republican President might. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-memorability-among-presidents-in-100-years-time/750171/103 "2016-03-31T12:37:36Z")
That’s why Obama will be rated mediocre. You all act as if “unprecedented obstruction” is something Republicans just thought of in 2008, that honorable men inhabited Congress prior to that. The right way to think of it is “unprecedentedly successful obstruction”. Republicans were able to obstruct Obama in a way they never would have gotten away with against Clinton or LBJ or Kennedy or FDR. They were able to obstruct Truman pretty effectively, but that’s because Truman was pretty unpopular and was also not particularly talented politically. But Truman had one thing Obama does not: backbone. Obama would have been owned by a giant like MacArthur. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-memorability-among-presidents-in-100-years-time/750171/104 "2016-03-31T13:00:37Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > But Truman had one thing Obama does not: backbone. Obama would have been owned by a giant like MacArthur. Tell that to General Stanley McChrystal. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-memorability-among-presidents-in-100-years-time/750171/105 "2016-03-31T13:38:19Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The problem was that there were never any negotiations. Not only was the Republican bill never considered, there was never even an attempt to meet the Republicans halfway. The Democrats named the terms, said take it or leave it, and the Republicans left it. This is a misrepresentation on a Trumpian scale. To refresh your memory, Democrats started out by not even trying to get the single payer system that most Democrats wanted. They conceded this to the Republicans before even starting negotiations. They had already met them halfway by doing so. They scaled it down to a public option, and got zero Republican support. Then they essentially adopted RomneyCare and the individual mandate originally proposed by Republicans in 1993. Again, the Democrats met Republicans more than halfway. Did Republicans cast one vote for what was essentially their own plan? Of course not. They lied about death panels. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-memorability-among-presidents-in-100-years-time/750171/106 "2016-03-31T13:56:47Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Tell that to General Stanley McChrystal. He willingly offered his resignation. He didn’t own Obama because his ego wasn’t so outsized that he placed his own interests above the President’s. MacArthur fought Truman tooth and nail, got fired, and continued to campaign against Truman. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-memorability-among-presidents-in-100-years-time/750171/107 "2016-03-31T14:01:55Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > This is a misrepresentation on a Trumpian scale. To refresh your memory, Democrats started out by not even trying to get the single payer system that most Democrats wanted. They conceded this to the Republicans before even starting negotiations. They had already met them halfway by doing so. They scaled it down to a public option, and got zero Republican support. Then they essentially adopted RomneyCare and the individual mandate originally proposed by Republicans in 1993. Again, the Democrats met Republicans more than halfway. Did Republicans cast one vote for what was essentially their own plan? Of course not. They lied about death panels. I was talking about the stimulus, but I’ll take this one on too. First, most Democrats didn’t want a single payer system. The basic form of ACA was always going to be what it was, because that’s what Democrats agreed on. Giving up single payer was not a concession to anyone. It was never on the table. The public option also failed to win enough Democratic support in the Senate(It did pass the House). So the public option was also not a concession. Concessions are what you offer when your side already agrees on the outlines of a deal they want. Finally, giving a final offer that you say meets your opposition halfway, but denying them a chance to say what THEY think halfway would be is not negotiating. It’s offering what you think are generous terms and saying “take it or leave it”. Republicans do not like Democrats telling us what we want. We can do that just fine and then we negotiate. In the end, the bill that passed was exactly what the Democratic caucus could agree on. There were no concessions to Republicans, only concessions to red state Democrats. That being said, there was a bipartisan group working on a health care bill, but it did not have the support of either the Democratic or Republican leadership and so it failed. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-memorability-among-presidents-in-100-years-time/750171/108 "2016-03-31T14:07:19Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > He willingly offered his resignation. He didn’t own Obama because his ego wasn’t so outsized that he placed his own interests above the President’s. MacArthur fought Truman tooth and nail, got fired, and continued to campaign against Truman. Of course his sense of public service wasn’t large enough to not divulge secrets to his mistress. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-memorability-among-presidents-in-100-years-time/750171/109 "2016-03-31T14:14:43Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Of course his sense of public service wasn’t large enough to not divulge secrets to his mistress. Sorry, that was General Betrayus. McCrystal was the Rolling Stone Insult Comic Dog. Hard to keep these traitor generals straight. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-memorability-among-presidents-in-100-years-time/750171/110 "2016-03-31T14:15:18Z")
I don’t know about the presidents of the next hundred years, but I’m guessing that in the rankings of all the presidents up and including Obama he’ll end up somewhere in the mid- to top- second quartile (somewhere in the range of 11th to 17th). If ACA or something else he did blossoms into something big and beneficial in the longer term he might break the top 10 but I can’t see that happening; conversely, unless something spectacularly bad crystallizes he won’t drop into the second half. Solidly competent, a few decent achievements, a few disappointments, a steady hand on the tiller but nothing earth-shaking in either direction. As for what he’ll be remembered for in a century by _hoi polloi_: First Black President. Everything else will be fodder for the history buffs. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-memorability-among-presidents-in-100-years-time/750171/111 "2016-03-31T14:22:23Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That’s why Obama will be rated mediocre. You all act as if “unprecedented obstruction” is something Republicans just thought of in 2008, that honorable men inhabited Congress prior to that. The right way to think of it is “unprecedentedly successful obstruction”. Republicans were able to obstruct Obama in a way they never would have gotten away with against Clinton or LBJ or Kennedy or FDR. They were able to obstruct Truman pretty effectively, but that’s because Truman was pretty unpopular and was also not particularly talented politically. But Truman had one thing Obama does not: backbone. Obama would have been owned by a giant like MacArthur. The “backbone” comment is just another worthless snide personal-hatred remark; if you’d leave those out of your posts, these discussions would be much more pleasant (pretty pretty please?). As to the rest, I think the climate really has changed, and the public really is more partisan – and a big chunk of the population either will _never_ accept compromise with a Democratic President or _never_ accept compromise with a black/foreign-sounding-named President, no matter what he says or does. I blame him for doing a poor job of justifying and promoting the ACA, and a lousy job of campaigning for the midterms, and being to naïve about how much the Republicans hated him, but that’s it (in relation to obstruction). Has nothing to do with “backbone”, and everything to do with political tactics. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-memorability-among-presidents-in-100-years-time/750171/112 "2016-03-31T14:25:31Z")
If the Cuba and Iran policies presage a long and successful less-aggressive foreign policy for the next several decades, then that will be remembered as impactful, and as impactful as the foreign policies of Presidents like Reagan, Nixon, and Teddy Roosevelt. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-memorability-among-presidents-in-100-years-time/750171/113 "2016-03-31T14:39:42Z")
Opening up China, thawing the Cold War, and expanding the American empire are just a bit more impactful than opening relations with third world countries. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-memorability-among-presidents-in-100-years-time/750171/114 "2016-03-31T14:40:08Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > You all act as if “unprecedented obstruction” is something Republicans just thought of in 2008, that honorable men inhabited Congress prior to that. The right way to think of it is “unprecedentedly successful obstruction”. Republicans were able to obstruct Obama in a way they never would have gotten away with against Clinton or LBJ or Kennedy or FDR. They were able to obstruct Truman pretty effectively, but that’s because Truman was pretty unpopular and was also not particularly talented politically. But Truman had one thing Obama does not: backbone. Obama would have been owned by a giant like MacArthur. You act as if the Republican Party in 2008 was the same as its predecessors, which ignores the considerable shift to the right - and to ideological purity - the party has undergone since the 1990s. The most conservative Republican member of Congress 25 years prior would have been one of the most liberal in Congress of 2010 as the irrational ideologues of the Tea Party joined. In the past, for all the public squabbling and policy disagreements, members of Congress could still hammer out backroom deals and go home to their constituents claiming success. The new GOP will brook no compromise, no deals, no quarter at all even if it damages the country (as the government shutdown demonstrated), and then will blithely blame everyone else for the problem (as the government shutdown also demonstrated). You may handwave away such behavior as “complicated stuff” but that has little to do with the reality of the situation. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-memorability-among-presidents-in-100-years-time/750171/115 "2016-03-31T14:44:46Z")
The Republican Party is not monolithic. There are plenty of Republicans willing to cross the aisle. When you can’t even get Susan Collins to vote with you, that’s on you, not the Republican Party. You’ll also notice that despite Susan Collins joining the obstruction machine, that Maine voters happily returned her to office. That should tell you something, that is, if Scott Brown’s election and several Northeastern states being run by Republicans didn’t tell you enough. Which brings me to the next ding on Obama’s record: his unprecedented failures to lead his party through midterm elections. Midterms have always been challenging for Democrats, but we’ve never seen Republicans this dominant outside the White House in our lifetimes. Oh wait, I forgot, Obama’s never to blame, we’re going to hang this one on Debbie Wasserman. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-memorability-among-presidents-in-100-years-time/750171/116 "2016-03-31T15:00:08Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I was talking about the stimulus, The stimulus included larger than desired tax cuts as a concession to Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-memorability-among-presidents-in-100-years-time/750171/117 "2016-03-31T15:08:50Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Opening up China, thawing the Cold War, and expanding the American empire are just a bit more impactful than opening relations with third world countries. Not if this example is emulated with good results – if so, Obama will be considered the architect of a new sea change in US foreign policy. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-memorability-among-presidents-in-100-years-time/750171/118 "2016-03-31T15:20:16Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > The stimulus included larger than desired tax cuts as a concession to Republicans. Were the Republicans consulted on this? No. And how much larger than what Democrats wanted? Was it actually larger than what Democrats wanted, or like the health care bill, was it a concession to their Blue Dogs and they hadn’t even gotten around to making any concessions to the Republicans? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-memorability-among-presidents-in-100-years-time/750171/119 "2016-03-31T15:21:12Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The Republican Party is not monolithic. There are plenty of Republicans willing to cross the aisle. When you can’t even get Susan Collins to vote with you, that’s on you, not the Republican Party. > > You’ll also notice that despite Susan Collins joining the obstruction machine, that Maine voters happily returned her to office. That should tell you something, that is, if Scott Brown’s election and several Northeastern states being run by Republicans didn’t tell you enough. > > Which brings me to the next ding on Obama’s record: his unprecedented failures to lead his party through midterm elections. Midterms have always been challenging for Democrats, but we’ve never seen Republicans this dominant outside the White House in our lifetimes. Oh wait, I forgot, Obama’s never to blame, we’re going to hang this one on Debbie Wasserman. That’s a political failure. Obama was partially (and maybe largely) responsible for big House and Senate gains in 2008, and for modest gains in 2012, while also partially responsible for big losses in '10 and '14. “Unprecedented” is just hyperbole – big losses often (and maybe even usually) follow huge gains. If the Democrats win the WH and the Senate back and make gains in the House in '16, then Obama also gets part of the credit for that. If we look at all the elections that can reasonable be at least partially credited to Obama (all from memory – feel free to challenge any mistakes I make), then that’s the Prez elections of '08, '12, and '16 (2 big wins plus one TBD); the House elections of '08, '10, '12, '14, and '16 (1 big win, 2 big losses, and 1 modest but not sweeping gain in '12, and 1 TBD); and Senate elections of '08, '10, '12, '14, and '16 (1 big win, 1 modest but not sweeping loss, 1 modest but not sweeping win, 1 big loss, and 1 TBD) – adding up to 4 big wins, 2 modest wins, 1 modest loss, 3 big losses, and 3 TBD. 6-4 overall, with 2 more likely big wins ('16 Prez and Senate) and another likely modest but not sweeping win (the '16 House), and Obama’s “Political Win/Loss Record” is likely to be 9-4 after the '16 elections. I’m calling gains that change control of the House/Senate “Big” wins and losses, and gains that don’t change control “modest” wins and losses. Going by this political record, how many Presidents are better than Obama, with the caveat that a disastrous '16 would make Obama’s record 6-7 instead of 9-4? I think the list of Presidents by this measure is probably relatively small… so even if we just measure Election Politics success, Obama may be pretty close to top 10. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-memorability-among-presidents-in-100-years-time/750171/120 "2016-03-31T15:23:16Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Not if this example is emulated with good results – if so, Obama will be considered the architect of a new sea change in US foreign policy. How do you figure? Is there a consistent doctrine in there that you’re seeing that I’m not? He made a nuclear agreement with Iran, something many Presidents have done with other countries, and he opened up relations with a country we had cut off relations with, also something many other Presidents have done. Where’s the sea change? Actually, the most significant change in foreign policy under Obama is the willingness to use drones to kill terrorists in countries that consider that an aggression. The Bush administration was surprisingly timid about that. That actually does set a new course for us. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-memorability-among-presidents-in-100-years-time/750171.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-memorability-among-presidents-in-100-years-time/750171.md?page=7)