# Obama's New Boner: The Falkland Islands **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 11, 2011, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-new-boner-the-falkland-islands/585066 "2011-06-11T03:09:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2011, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-new-boner-the-falkland-islands/585066/61 "2011-06-12T01:44:57Z")
> [@Sri\_Theo](#): > > The Monroe Doctrine and all that. This. The UK are our pals and such, but we said a long time ago that we were doing all of the colonizing in this hemisphere, thank you very much. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2011, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-new-boner-the-falkland-islands/585066/62 "2011-06-12T02:04:53Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > This. The UK are our pals and such, but we said a long time ago that we were doing all of the colonizing in this hemisphere, thank you very much. Its already colonized not newly colonized. You might as well tell the British to give up Canada. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2011, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-new-boner-the-falkland-islands/585066/63 "2011-06-12T02:12:59Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Its already colonized not newly colonized. You might as well tell the British to give up Canada. No. We aren’t telling them to give up the Falklands (or Canada). But we are saying that look, you’ve got yourself into a pickle here and although we would like to help you (looks down and twiddles thumbs) we really think that you should handle this yourself. I mean, no doubt that the UK is our greatest ally and we want to help. However, the only way that we survived as a young country was to tell European powers to stay the fuck out of our hemisphere. So there is a conflict there that keeps us from supporting our pals 100%. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2011, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-new-boner-the-falkland-islands/585066/64 "2011-06-12T02:25:08Z")
Between this and the “Obama Calls for Independent Palestine, 1967 Borders” thread, I’m wondering: Why is Obama announcing that he’s going to continue policies that have been in place for several administrations such a controversial thing in some quarters? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2011, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-new-boner-the-falkland-islands/585066/65 "2011-06-12T02:37:18Z")
> [@42fish](#): > > Between this and the “Obama Calls for Independent Palestine, 1967 Borders” thread, I’m wondering: Why is Obama announcing that he’s going to continue policies that have been in place for several administrations such a controversial thing in some quarters? There does seem to be a strong case of blame drift here. The OP accused Obama. The article lead accused the Obama administration. And then when you read the article you find that what happened was the Organization of American States called for negotiations and the United States government didn’t state it opposed this. You know who else didn’t state any opposition to the OAS statement? Chuck Norris. So I think it’s pretty clear who really stabbed our closest ally in the back. Sure, he acts tough in the movies but where is he when it counts? ---
**Author:** ![Estilicon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Estilicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Estilicon)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2011, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-new-boner-the-falkland-islands/585066/66 "2011-06-12T02:50:32Z")
The Falklands are British or, to be more precise, the Kelpers are British and would like to remain so. Because of that, my country’s claim to the islands are irrelevant. But the U.K. -after the war- claimed much of the surrounding waters as a security zone and it even expanded it many years after the war (I believe in the 90’s) also for security reasons. That is a lie, it was because of the resources. It is a lie because the small force the U.K has in the island could probably conquer Argentina: our armed forces are almost non existant. I won’t excuse Argentina’s role in the war (after all, we were the agressors) but it is always good to remember that the U.N asked both parties to negotiate the issue many times since the sixties and the U.K has repetedly refused. That is stupid, you won’t be able to exploit the oil without the coaperation of the continent. And it seems that they are all backing us. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2011, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-new-boner-the-falkland-islands/585066/67 "2011-06-12T03:06:28Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Actually, Britain’s legal claim is pretty strong. The Argentinian claim is based on a previous claim from Spain (and by previous I mean the Spaniards left the islands in 1811). The Spanish claim was disputed by England at the time. > > Argentina didn’t exist in 1811. Their claim is that they now own the islands because Spain once owned them. Argentina figures that when it declared its independence in 1816, the islands were included as part of the country. So when other countries (one of the first of which was ironically Britain) explicitly recognized Argentina as a country they were also implicitly recognizing Argentina’s claim to the islands. > > So Argentina’s claim requires you to accept that Spain originally owned the islands and that Spain transferred ownership to Argentina. Both of these premises are pretty shaky. > > The British claim is that they first landed on the islands and claimed them in 1690 and settled on the islands in 1766. They don’t feel the Spanish had a valid claim in the first place so they certainly couldn’t have given the islands to Argentina. And, on a more current note, the islanders who are living there want to remain under British control. Slight hijack: what does Spain say about all this? have they ever said anything about the whole mess one way or the other? ---
**Author:** ![Estilicon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Estilicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Estilicon)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2011, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-new-boner-the-falkland-islands/585066/68 "2011-06-12T03:15:25Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > Slight hijack: what does Spain say about all this? have they ever said anything about the whole mess one way or the other? Nothing. Spain renounced all its claims over the old Viceroyalty of River Plate in the Recognition, peace and friendship treaty of 1863 between Spain and the Argentinian Confederacy. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2011, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-new-boner-the-falkland-islands/585066/69 "2011-06-12T03:29:48Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > Slight hijack: what does Spain say about all this? have they ever said anything about the whole mess one way or the other? Spain says this is an issue between the United Kingdom and Argentina. The President of Argentina visited Spain in 2010 for an international conference and there was talk that there might be an Argentinian request for Spanish support for its claim. The Spanish government said that if Argentina asked for support of its claim, Spain would not give it. ---
**Author:** ![straight\_man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/straight_man/32/3027_2.png) [@straight\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/straight_man)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2011, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-new-boner-the-falkland-islands/585066/70 "2011-06-12T05:00:23Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > I mean, no doubt that the UK is our greatest ally and we want to help. However, the only way that we survived as a young country was to tell European powers to stay the fuck out of our hemisphere. So there is a conflict there that keeps us from supporting our pals 100%. a) It’s not your hemisphere. b) It _really_ wasn’t your hemisphere when the Monroe Doctrine was passed. (Indeed, I have a hard time seeing how the Doctrine was even relevant to the US’s survival at the time.) c) Suggesting otherwise is arguably more offensive to the Latin Americans than to the Brits. > [@GIGObuster](#): > > Currently though, the oil issue will most likely bring things to a head, not having negotiated (and I have to say that it is becoming silly to constantly ignore that negotiating does not mean that Argentina would get the islands, but that we could avoid a confrontation by sharing resources) and just waving away the cost of keeping a fleet on the other side of the world just so someone would “get it”, continues to strike me as someone cutting their nose to spite the face. I’m not sure a compromise is politically plausible here. The UK fought (by post-WW2 standards) a fairly serious war to keep the islands. They’re not likely to give up _any_ of the gains — including natural resources — unless Argentina has some plan to give them something valuable in return. At the moment, Argentina apparently wants the UK to make unilateral concessions. How could the UK government sell that at home? And how weak and pathetic would it make them look abroad? ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2011, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-new-boner-the-falkland-islands/585066/71 "2011-06-12T05:25:00Z")
To quote Jorge Luis Borges: > [@](#): > > I strongly supported the British effort in the Falklands. Personally, I > think that had Mrs Thatcher caved in that Labor might have ousted her and > taken Britain out of NATO. (Perhaps not out of the alliance, but something > like DeGaulle did.) Yet, I don’t think I was alone in considering the war as > the result of a pointless, criminal blunder on the part of a corrupt and > very foolish government. When you think of how frivolous the issue involved > was the more you wonder about the stupidity of our fellow man. You can bet > the average Argentine didn’t think the islands were worth a major war. I’m > sure the population cheered as long as they thought there was no price to be > paid, but when the RN sailed down the mood changed. Several of my students > from both Argentina and Chile told me that many of the juntas’ opponents > (there lots of them) were quick to use the debacle as a lever to get the > military out of Argentina’s political life. > > When I tell my students about the War of 1812 I outline its importance to > American history – but must conclude that it was a damn stupid war that was > very avoidable. The Falklands fit in that category. The two are not quite > the same. In 1812 the British government was only slightly stupider than > ours. The British were blameless for the Falklands hostilities. None of > this diminishes the skill and courage showed by the men of Britain’s armed > forces. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2011, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-new-boner-the-falkland-islands/585066/72 "2011-06-12T11:44:37Z")
It would make sense for the K to spend billions defending the Falklands-if there is a major oil deposit there. Is there? I have heard of some drilling, but no confirmed oil strikes. Is 3000 kelpers and 6,000,000 sheep worth \>$2 billion/year? ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2011, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-new-boner-the-falkland-islands/585066/73 "2011-06-12T12:41:53Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > I mean, no doubt that the UK is our greatest ally and we want to help. However, the only way that we survived as a young country was to tell European powers to stay the fuck out of our hemisphere. So there is a conflict there that keeps us from supporting our pals 100%. Ironic, given it was the UK that actually enforced the Monroe Doctrine 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2011, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-new-boner-the-falkland-islands/585066/74 "2011-06-12T15:26:49Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > You know who else didn’t state any opposition to the OAS statement? Chuck Norris. So I think it’s pretty clear who really stabbed our closest ally in the back. Sure, he acts tough in the movies but where is he when it counts? Look behind you. ---
**Author:** ![Bytegeist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@Bytegeist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bytegeist)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2011, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-new-boner-the-falkland-islands/585066/75 "2011-06-12T22:49:01Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > You know who else didn’t state any opposition to the OAS statement? Chuck Norris. Chuck Norris has his own invasion plans for the Falklands. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2011, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-new-boner-the-falkland-islands/585066/76 "2011-06-12T23:32:30Z")
Whole lot of sheep in the Falklands. Maybe just a coincidence. ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-new-boner-the-falkland-islands/585066/77 "2011-06-16T14:32:36Z")
Weakest boner ever. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-new-boner-the-falkland-islands/585066/78 "2011-06-16T14:45:35Z")
> [@Estilicon](#): > > The Falklands are British or, to be more precise, the Kelpers are British and would like to remain so. Because of that, my country’s claim to the islands are irrelevant. > > But the U.K. -after the war- claimed much of the surrounding waters as a security zone and it even expanded it many years after the war (I believe in the 90’s) also for security reasons. That is a lie, it was because of the resources. It is a lie because the small force the U.K has in the island could probably conquer Argentina: our armed forces are almost non existant. > > I won’t excuse Argentina’s role in the war (after all, we were the agressors) but it is always good to remember that the U.N asked both parties to negotiate the issue many times since the sixties and the U.K has repetedly refused. That is stupid, you won’t be able to exploit the oil without the coaperation of the continent. And it seems that they are all backing us. This. ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-new-boner-the-falkland-islands/585066/79 "2011-06-16T15:31:58Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > It would make sense for the K to spend billions defending the Falklands-if there is a major oil deposit there. > Is there? I have heard of some drilling, but no confirmed oil strikes. > Is 3000 kelpers and 6,000,000 sheep worth \>$2 billion/year? We found some just the other week [http://www.rockhopperexploration.co.uk/pdf/14-10\_5\_%20Well\_Update\_FINAL.pdf](http://www.rockhopperexploration.co.uk/pdf/14-10_5_%20Well_Update_FINAL.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![Damfino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Damfino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damfino)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-new-boner-the-falkland-islands/585066/80 "2011-06-17T21:40:36Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > No. We aren’t telling them to give up the Falklands (or Canada). But we are saying that look, you’ve got yourself into a pickle here and although we would like to help you (looks down and twiddles thumbs) we really think that you should handle this yourself. > > I mean, no doubt that the UK is our greatest ally and we want to help. However, the only way that we survived as a young country was to tell European powers to stay the fuck out of our hemisphere. So there is a conflict there that keeps us from supporting our pals 100%. French help was needed, nevertheless, before the US became a young country.[Battle of Chesapeake](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Chesapeake) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-new-boner-the-falkland-islands/585066.md?page=3)