# Obama's New Policy on the "War on Terror" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 24, 2013, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-new-policy-on-the-war-on-terror/659224 "2013-05-24T14:34:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2013, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-new-policy-on-the-war-on-terror/659224/41 "2013-05-25T11:37:03Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > The Channel Islands and Man are not part of the EU. The European Convention is not an EU body. It does cover the whole EU, but is older than it, having been founded in 1953 when the EU was a fledgling Steel and Coal community! It includes every European country excluding Byelorussia but including Russia. It has enough strength to have forced Russia to stop judicial killings! ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2013, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-new-policy-on-the-war-on-terror/659224/42 "2013-05-25T13:15:00Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > It has enough strength to have forced Russia to stop judicial killings! What is a “judicial killing” and how, exactly, would the European Convention stop Russia? Would it get Hans Blix to send Putin a nasty letter? ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2013, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-new-policy-on-the-war-on-terror/659224/43 "2013-05-25T13:30:57Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > What is a “judicial killing” and how, exactly, would the European Convention stop Russia? Would it get Hans Blix to send Putin a nasty letter? Judicial Killing- what it says- killing by the Justice system- the Death Penalty. Russia has complied because European countries are denied access to each others markets if they do not comply with the Convention. Trade outweighs the desire for retribution, revenge, torture etc. Russia put its DP Laws into abeyance so that it could sell its gas and products to Europe. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2013, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-new-policy-on-the-war-on-terror/659224/44 "2013-05-25T14:55:40Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > Judicial Killing- what it says- killing by the Justice system- the Death Penalty. > > Russia has complied because European countries are denied access to each others markets if they do not comply with the Convention. Trade outweighs the desire for retribution, revenge, torture etc. Russia put its DP Laws into abeyance so that it could sell its gas and products to Europe. Perhaps you could comment on why the main suspect in the murder of Alexander Litvinenko, which occurred in London, is free in Russia, despite extradition requests by UK authorities. Perhaps the ECHR is effective in prohibiting judicial killings, but their ability to tackle extra-judicial killings among its member states leaves something to be desired? Seems like a rather serious shortfall. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2013, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-new-policy-on-the-war-on-terror/659224/45 "2013-05-25T16:15:38Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Perhaps you could comment on why the main suspect in the murder of Alexander Litvinenko, which occurred in London, is free in Russia, despite extradition requests by UK authorities. > > Perhaps the ECHR is effective in prohibiting judicial killings, but their ability to tackle extra-judicial killings among its member states leaves something to be desired? Seems like a rather serious shortfall. Nice Straw Man argument! The ECHR is solely to do with the relationship between the STate Power and the Individual, protecting individual citizen’s rights against the States. It is not tasked as a supreme court for any other matters. Within the EU there is the European Arrest Warrant which allows easy transfer of suspects between countries without complex extradition procedures. But ignoring the Straw Man diversion, the ECHR would stop any known concentration camp on soil controlled by any signatory to the convention. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2013, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-new-policy-on-the-war-on-terror/659224/46 "2013-05-25T18:41:56Z")
> [@CoolHandCox](#): > > Obama saying he’s waiting to quit fighting once the AUMF is repealed would be like me saying ill quit driving when you revoke my driver’s license. He didn’t say that. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2013, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-new-policy-on-the-war-on-terror/659224/47 "2013-05-25T19:47:16Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > But ignoring the Straw Man diversion, the ECHR would stop any known concentration camp on soil controlled by any signatory to the convention. So, if Russia decides to have some, what does the European Court of Human Rights do about it? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2013, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-new-policy-on-the-war-on-terror/659224/48 "2013-05-25T19:58:17Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > the ECHR would stop any known concentration camp on soil controlled by any signatory to the convention. The whole point of the black sites in Poland and Romania - and the CIA flights that took detainees there through many other countries - was that they were not known even though several countries were involved or aware of what was happening. But it does sound like there have been official investigations and may be prosecutions. Too bad that didn’t happen in the U.S. ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2013, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-new-policy-on-the-war-on-terror/659224/49 "2013-05-26T07:20:34Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > He didn’t say that. True, he never did say he’d quit fighting. But if Congress repealed the AUMF, it would restrict that ability. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2013, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-new-policy-on-the-war-on-terror/659224/50 "2013-05-26T21:41:06Z")
Guantánamo is not a prison nor a concentration camp. It’s a POW camp and a detention center for illegal combatants. By all humanitarian laws and treaties, POWs and illegal combatants can be held unitl the war is over. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2013, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-new-policy-on-the-war-on-terror/659224/51 "2013-05-27T10:24:49Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > Guantánamo is not a prison nor a concentration camp. > It’s a POW camp and a detention center for illegal combatants. No, it’s a camp for people _accused_ of being illegal combatants, no matter how flimsy the evidence. By buying innocent bystanders from any scumbag willing to sell them, the US government puts themselves barely a half step above a common slaver. > [@](#): > > By all humanitarian laws and treaties, POWs and illegal combatants can be held unitl the war is over. An excuse that has been abused to hell and back by the US government. Your global, eternal “war” is just so much bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2013, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-new-policy-on-the-war-on-terror/659224/52 "2013-05-27T11:28:25Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > So, if Russia decides to have some, what does the European Court of Human Rights do about it? They would lose the European market. Who would they sell their gas to? This potential threat was enough to stop them using the death penalty! ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-new-policy-on-the-war-on-terror/659224/53 "2013-05-28T19:36:44Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > No, it’s a camp for people _accused_ of being illegal combatants, no matter how flimsy the evidence. By buying innocent bystanders from any scumbag willing to sell them, the US government puts themselves barely a half step above a common slaver. I’ll agree that in some/many cases the evidence for their ilegal combatant status is less tan kosher. The SCOTUS implemented an olbigation for reviewing cases. > [@](#): > > An excuse that has been abused to hell and back by the US government. Your global, eternal “war” is just so much bullshit. Obama can end the war the moment he wants. There’s also the problema that for many of the people there is no country willing to take them. “My” war? I don’t know which war can be considered “mine” except my perpetual war against chocolates. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-new-policy-on-the-war-on-terror/659224/54 "2013-05-28T21:01:06Z")
According to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) 32,885 people died in traffic crashes in 2010 in the United States (latest figures available), including an estimated 10,228 people who died in drunk driving crashes, accounting for 31% of all traffic deaths last year. So remind me again, compared to a mere 10,000 Americans who died from drunk drivers; how many Americans died from terrorists? And this is why we need a war against terrorists, but not one against drunk drivers… ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-new-policy-on-the-war-on-terror/659224/55 "2013-05-28T22:01:43Z")
> [@CoolHandCox](#): > > True, he never did say he’d quit fighting. But if Congress repealed the AUMF, it would restrict that ability. Yes, that’s the point of repealing it. But the contradiction you were talking about didn’t exist. > [@PastTense](#): > > So remind me again, compared to a mere 10,000 Americans who died from drunk drivers; how many Americans died from terrorists? And this is why we need a war against terrorists, but not one against drunk drivers… There is a war against drunk driving (figuratively). It used to be seen as no big deal, and now it’s punished with increasing severity. And the number of deaths by drunk driver has been going down for decades. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-new-policy-on-the-war-on-terror/659224/56 "2013-05-28T23:23:43Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > They would lose the European market. Who would they sell their gas to? > > This potential threat was enough to stop them using the death penalty! Does the ECHR have the authority to impose a trade embargo? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-new-policy-on-the-war-on-terror/659224/57 "2013-05-28T23:25:11Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > Guantánamo is not a prison nor a concentration camp. > It’s a POW camp and a detention center for illegal combatants. > By all humanitarian laws and treaties, POWs and illegal combatants can be held unitl the war is over. But, in this case, how do we **tell** when the war is over? And, if we could tell, do you really think the Guantanamo detainees would simply be released at that point? Some are charged with crimes. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-new-policy-on-the-war-on-terror/659224/58 "2013-05-28T23:25:22Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > Guantánamo is not a prison nor a concentration camp. > It’s a POW camp and a detention center for illegal combatants. > By all humanitarian laws and treaties, POWs and illegal combatants can be held unitl the war is over. Remind me again: when did the United States declare war and on who? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-new-policy-on-the-war-on-terror/659224/59 "2013-05-28T23:28:18Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > “My” war? I don’t know which war can be considered “mine” except my perpetual war against chocolates. Ridding the world of them one at a time, eh? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-new-policy-on-the-war-on-terror/659224/60 "2013-05-28T23:30:09Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > Obama can end the war the moment he wants. Great. Let’s say he did so when he made the speech that started this thread. Now can we let them go? > [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > There’s also the problema that for many of the people there is no country willing to take them. Well, everybody’s from somewhere. Can Saudi Arabia refuse the repatriation of a native-born Saudi Arabian, prisoner or free? I’ve never heard of a modern state using exile-abroad\* of citizens as a punishment. Does international law even allow for it, any more? - Some use **internal** exile – sending a troublemaker to your country’s equivalent of Siberia is cheaper than locking him up, less controversial than killing him, and keeps him away from places he might cause trouble, including foreign countries. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-new-policy-on-the-war-on-terror/659224.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-new-policy-on-the-war-on-terror/659224.md?page=4)