# Obama's Speech to the Memorial Service **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 17, 2012, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speech-to-the-memorial-service/644252 "2012-12-17T01:52:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speech-to-the-memorial-service/644252/21 "2012-12-17T15:29:05Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > This isn’t about Obama and his religion, it’s about the people grieving, some of whom are not Christian. It’s weird, because just the other day I was hearing how Obama was taking Christ out of Christmas and now he gets heat for even mentioning the guy. Must be hard for the guy to keep it straight. Too much god? Not enough god? Maybe we could have some sort of handy god-scale with color coding so conservatives can indicate the exact amount of god they would like to see from him today. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speech-to-the-memorial-service/644252/22 "2012-12-17T15:30:00Z")
A great speech. A seed was planted for a defining issue of Obama’s second term. The audience certainly appreciated his remarks. Whether its some gun control , focus on mental illness,or national school security measures this issue will be kept at the forefront by this administration. Something has to give and I sense the gun lobby is showing vulnerability this time around and Obama has taken the bit between his teeth. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speech-to-the-memorial-service/644252/23 "2012-12-17T15:35:43Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > That’s not what I said. No its not, that’s what I said. I was trying to illustrate to you how silly your objection is. Of course I didn’t just use your exact words as a response. That would just be quoting you. I’m not a religious person, and I’m certainly strongly for separation of church and state. But I can’t see how anyone would legitimately be offended by this who isn’t already predisposed to object to whatever he says. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speech-to-the-memorial-service/644252/24 "2012-12-17T15:36:36Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > It’s weird, because just the other day I was hearing how Obama was taking Christ out of Christmas and now he gets heat for even mentioning the guy. Well, when you hear that from me, you can use that as an argument against me. > [@](#): > > Must be hard for the guy to keep it straight. Too much god? Not enough god? Maybe we could have some sort of handy god-scale with color coding so conservatives can indicate the exact amount of god they would like to see from him today. You’ll have to ask a conservative about that, but most of them would welcome more “Jesus”, not less. In short, I have no idea what that response has to do with what I am talking about. It’s easy as pie to keep it generic, as I already noted. I’m sure there will be some atheists who get offended at the mere mention of “God”, but most of us are used to it. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speech-to-the-memorial-service/644252/25 "2012-12-17T15:43:41Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > No its not, that’s what I said. I was trying to illustrate to you how silly your objection is. Of course I didn’t just use your exact words as a response. That would just be quoting you. Then it’s a bad analogy. Yes, it would be silly to ask Obama to include every religion imaginable. That’s why it’s best to keep it generic. > [@](#): > > I’m not a religious person, and I’m certainly strongly for separation of church and state. But I can’t see how anyone would legitimately be offended by this who isn’t already predisposed to object to whatever he says. I expect the president to be smart enough to avoid that possibility. On a message board where posters go ape shit over Tim Tebow, it shouldn’t be too hard to imagine such a thing. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speech-to-the-memorial-service/644252/26 "2012-12-17T15:44:10Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > “Let the little children come to me,” Jesus said, “and do not hinder them – for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven.” > > Charlotte. Daniel. Olivia. Josephine. Ana. Dylan. Madeleine. Catherine. Chase. Jesse. James. Grace. Emilie. Jack. Noah. Caroline. Jessica. Benjamin. Avielle. Allison. > > God has called them all home." I found this to be an incredibly moving passage of the speech, and I’m not one who generally reacts to religious content in speeches by political leaders. It would be a damn shame if such touching thoughts were left on the clipping room floor because someone dared say the “J” word. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speech-to-the-memorial-service/644252/27 "2012-12-17T15:53:12Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Then it’s a bad analogy. The fact that you refuse to accept an analogy doesn’t make it bad. Easily offended people are easily offended I guess. It seems like for every word the president has uttered in the past 4+ years you can bet there is at least someone who then became outraged and offended by whatever it was that he said. The man tried to offer some words of comfort to a group of people who have just had their lives shattered in the best and most personal way that he knows how. Yes he could have made it PC vague and generic, but that would have taken the sincerity and personal connection that he said it with away imo. I seriously doubt anyone there had the reaction you are characterizing. Try putting yourself in the shoes of one of these parents. Are you really going to get pissy about the way he tries to express sympathy and comfort for your terrible loss? I say again - come on, really? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speech-to-the-memorial-service/644252/28 "2012-12-17T15:56:18Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I found this to be an incredibly moving passage of the speech, and I’m not one who generally reacts to religious content in speeches by political leaders. It would be a damn shame if such touching thoughts were left on the clipping room floor because someone dared say the “J” word. It’s not about “daring” to say the “J” word. It’s about respecting other people’s faiths, and not projecting your own onto them in their time of grief. As for moving, it’s just a gussied up version of the “he’s in a better place” bromide. At least that one doesn’t specify a Christian place. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speech-to-the-memorial-service/644252/29 "2012-12-17T15:59:34Z")
Is “the Kingdom of Heaven” a specifically Christian phrase? I had thought it was the common term in all the Abrahamic faiths. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speech-to-the-memorial-service/644252/30 "2012-12-17T16:04:27Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > The fact that you refuse to accept an analogy doesn’t make it bad. What makes it bad is that it would indeed have sounded silly for the president to invoke every religion imaginable. It would not have sounded silly to keep it generic-- presidents do that all the time. They do that most of the time when invoking religion. > [@](#): > > Easily offended people are easily offended I guess. It seems like for every word the president has uttered in the past 4+ years you can bet there is at least someone who then became outraged and offended by whatever it was that he said. > > The man tried to offer some words of comfort to a group of people who have just had their lives shattered in the best and most personal way that he knows how. Yes he could have made it PC vague and generic, but that would have taken the sincerity and personal connection that he said it with away imo. > > I seriously doubt anyone there had the reaction you are characterizing. Try putting yourself in the shoes of one of these parents. Are you really going to get pissy about the way he tries to express sympathy and comfort for your terrible loss? > > I say again - come on, really? I said it would have “taken me out of the moment”. If you want to consider that being “pissy”, go ahead. And actually, it did take me out of the moment. I was going along with the speech just fine until I heard that. I didn’t get pissy or upset. Thinking about it afterwards, I was genuinely shocked that Obama, great communicator that he can be, would have put that in there. I certainly wouldn’t have if I were a Christian. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speech-to-the-memorial-service/644252/31 "2012-12-17T16:05:23Z")
> [@Death\_of\_Rats](#): > > According to my gun nutter friend who was himself going to get a bunch of guns before “Obama takes them away”, yes, yes there were around here. He should be at the local antique store buying some pre-1898 stuff ----- no paperwork of any kind on that sweet Mauser I lost when my houseboat sank. 😃 I was surprised at the speech. I honestly expected some open tirade against firearms. What I heard was as much a tirade against Atheism as against guns. Maybe the right-wing is correct and push come to shove we really are indeed a Christian nation. ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speech-to-the-memorial-service/644252/32 "2012-12-17T16:07:03Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > I’m as tired as many of the “don’t politicize the tragedy” thing (if not now, when?), but a memorial service really isn’t the place for a sweeping policy statement. Maybe it’s just me but, it seems that every time someone says “don’t politicize something” what they are really saying is “yeah, that’s a really good argument to change shit but let’s not do anything because you might actually change shit and that’s not fair”. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speech-to-the-memorial-service/644252/33 "2012-12-17T16:11:26Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Is “the Kingdom of Heaven” a specifically Christian phrase? I had thought it was the common term in all the Abrahamic faiths. If I tie it Jesus, it’s a Christian phrase. Maybe it’s just me, but even when I was a Christian, I would not have said to a Jewish person that Jesus tells us to let our children come to him. Especially if that person had just lost his child in a tragic death. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speech-to-the-memorial-service/644252/34 "2012-12-17T16:18:03Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > It’s not about “daring” to say the “J” word. It’s about respecting other people’s faiths, and not projecting your own onto them in their time of grief. Holy cow, he wasn’t proselytizing. He wasn’t projecting his faith onto others. You can read the Bible as literature, too, you know – and it is a very apt quote of a romantic, comforting notion of what happens in the afterlife. Or “afterlife,” wink-wink, nod-nod, if you prefer. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speech-to-the-memorial-service/644252/35 "2012-12-17T16:20:23Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Maybe it’s just me, but even when I was a Christian, I would not have said to a Jewish person that Jesus tells us to let our children come to him. Especially if that person had just lost his child in a tragic death. As a Jewish person who is usually quick to object to Christian religious speech in the public square I think you are wrong here. I don’t believe Jewish parents would be offended in this context - it’s recognizable as a person of one faith extending comfort to people of all faiths. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speech-to-the-memorial-service/644252/36 "2012-12-17T16:20:28Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Holy cow, he wasn’t proselytizing. Nope. Never said was doing that. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speech-to-the-memorial-service/644252/37 "2012-12-17T16:22:21Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > If I tie it Jesus, it’s a Christian phrase. But the point is that there is no Christian Heaven. All the Abrahamic faiths believe they’re talking about the same Kingdom of Heaven, I believe. So your complaint cannot be that he “specif[ied] a Christian place.” Your complaint has to be that he referenced Jesus. That just makes your argument a bit weaker, IMO. Quoting religious figures is commonplace even in speeches that are more careful about religious references. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speech-to-the-memorial-service/644252/38 "2012-12-17T16:25:53Z")
> [@Death\_of\_Rats](#): > > According to my gun nutter friend who was himself going to get a bunch of guns before “Obama takes them away”, yes, yes there were around here. According to our local news, sales were already way up in Oregon after the earlier mall shooting, and got a further big spike from the CT shooting. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speech-to-the-memorial-service/644252/39 "2012-12-17T16:30:04Z")
> [@Mdcastleman](#): > > My feeling is still that with a Republican house and the NRA nothing significant will come of this… You are almost certainly correct. > [@](#): > > but I’m almost curious enough to drive by my local gun store to see if there’s a line stretching outside the door. The gun crowd has been howling about how their preciouses are about to be rounded up since Obama won the first election. That this administration’s only actions in the area have been to strengthen gun owner rights is lost on them; they will redouble their howls that “They knew it all along!” ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speech-to-the-memorial-service/644252/40 "2012-12-17T16:30:34Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Holy cow, he wasn’t proselytizing. He wasn’t projecting his faith onto others. You can read the Bible as literature, too, you know – and it is a very apt quote of a romantic, comforting notion of what happens in the afterlife. Or “afterlife,” wink-wink, nod-nod, if you prefer. I wonder if we would get the same tolerant response if he had quoted the Quran instead. Just kidding. I don’t wonder about that at all. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speech-to-the-memorial-service/644252.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speech-to-the-memorial-service/644252.md?page=3)