# Obama's Speech to the Memorial Service **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 17, 2012, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speech-to-the-memorial-service/644252 "2012-12-17T01:52:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speech-to-the-memorial-service/644252/61 "2012-12-17T21:43:22Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > This was an interfaith service, many religious prayers were offered by religious leaders of all faiths. There’s no reason for the President to restrict himself from expressing his own faith in his own terms. A rabbi gave Jewish prayers, there were representatives from religions that weren’t present among the victims, no one else was accused of having a proselytizing agenda. Did the Rabbi expect to be televised nationally preempting everything from the NFL on down? Not really? Then it looks like we have a little difference there between him and President Obama. You also have the consideration that the Rabbi and others are/were ordained and invited based on that ordination; what one expects there is different from what one expects of the highest elected official in our nation. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speech-to-the-memorial-service/644252/62 "2012-12-17T22:09:49Z")
This was a memorial service and not the place to start arguing about what types of guns should be on the street or who should be screened in what way. He said the right thing and he said it in an appropriate way. Nobody who comes to a memorial event wants to hear about that stuff at that time, and more specific proposals about legislation will come later on. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > I was shocked by his referenced Jesus Christ explicitly. In any circumstances, this would be insensitive, but how much does it take to know that this town has a significant Jewish population. I’m athier than most people, but I have to say this is kind of ridiculous. He chose what might be the most general and non-denominational of Jesus’ famous sayings. Quoting John 3:16 or saying no one goes to Heaven except through Jesus would’ve been disgusting, but even a more evangelical president probably wouldn’t have been that stupid. He said the kingdom of Heaven belongs to children. Fine. I might’ve mentally rolled my eyes had I been there, but it was a memorial event, he’s a Christian, and I’m not surprised he had something Christian-related to say. > [@kopek](#): > > In this situation I would say it goes past proselytizing and borders on outright evangelism. Proselytize: _n_ “to induce someone to convert to one’s faith.” Evangelize: _n_: “To preach the gospel to; To convert to Christianity.” I’d like to see much less religion in our public discourse, but you have to do a great deal of straining to call this proselytizing or evangelizing and we don’t need to start making up rules about how the president can’t so much as mention Jesus at a memorial service. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speech-to-the-memorial-service/644252/63 "2012-12-17T22:37:02Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I was shocked by his referenced Jesus Christ explicitly. In any circumstances, this would be insensitive, but how much does it take to know that this town has a significant Jewish population. As an atheist who sometimes pretends to worship Athena, I call bullshit. The President wasn’t addressing the town alone; he was addressing the nation. Like it or not this is a majority Christian nation, just as I’m sure the Newtown itself is majority Christian. His job was to be comforting, to be consolatory, to be encouraging, to lead, and that required speaking in the proper language. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speech-to-the-memorial-service/644252/64 "2012-12-17T23:17:50Z")
For a Muslim, Obama sure likes to quote Jesus. Can this at least be a break from the Obama Is Muslim bullshit? Islam is a beautiful religion, by the way. The President just doesn’t happen to practice that faith. And it was a multi-faith gathering. You didn’t see all of the speakers, because not all of the speakers was The President Of The United States. The President’s words were for those immediately affected, and for Americans who had no direct connection. That’s why his words were televised. Republicans are now trying so hard to throw shit at the President, that they’re falling down in it, covered in it, flailing away in it, while side-arm lofting it, -ironically enough- _praying_ that something will stick. If this happened to your children, a visit by the President would have moved you. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speech-to-the-memorial-service/644252/65 "2012-12-18T00:57:30Z")
The President cannot really catch a break. He makes an address, he is gonna get shit from somebody. Too Christian, too secular, too political, not political enough… I didn’t hear the speech, but I would wager a guess that some folks from the White House maybe spoke to some of the parents before the speech. They knew he was going to have to walk a fine line but in a speech like this the people you wanna piss of the least are the parents of murdered children. ---
**Author:** ![Hazle\_Weatherfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Hazle\_Weatherfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hazle_Weatherfield)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speech-to-the-memorial-service/644252/66 "2012-12-18T05:22:41Z")
“god called them home?” Please. ☹ And the couple of “jokes” he threw in? I voted for Obama. I love and respect the guy, but I thought his speech was vastly inferior to anything else he’s ever said. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speech-to-the-memorial-service/644252/67 "2012-12-18T05:27:37Z")
For cripe’s sake, it was an interfaith service. Speaking from your personal set of religious metaphors is the point of the entire thing. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speech-to-the-memorial-service/644252/68 "2012-12-18T06:30:23Z")
> [@Hazle\_Weatherfield](#): > > “god called them home?” Please. ☹ What’s the problem with this? [He said the same thing about his grandmother (who, for the most part, raised him) when she died.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5oMY6_kCoo) That’s the only other time I remember him getting as emotional as he did on Friday. I know: these kids were murdered horribly. I don’t think anybody needs an extra reminder. If people feel better hearing that the kids are with God, fine. > [@](#): > > And the couple of “jokes” he threw in? The closest thing I found to a joke was this: > [@](#): > > And then there were the scenes of the schoolchildren helping one another, holding each other, dutifully following instructions in the way that young children sometimes do, one child even trying to encourage a grownup by saying, “I know karate, so it’s OK; I’ll lead the way out.” OK, kind of a maudlin laugh line. But I guess that happened and he was talking about the community being an inspiration and perhaps about children being positive. I’d hate to give a eulogy in front of critics like this. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speech-to-the-memorial-service/644252/69 "2012-12-18T12:37:49Z")
Good heavens, what a fine line some people expect him to tread. It was an interfaith memorial service, complete with a rabbi and priest. So Obama says a few lines which, if you look through the right set of filters, might be interpreted as a Christian perspective. It was not an explicit endorsement of Christianity in any meaningful sense. Regarding policy issues- this was a memorial service. Not everyone who lost a loved one voted for Obama nor would be in favor of gun control. There’s a good chance that one of the mourners was a life NRA member and is adamantly opposed to a single new restriction. It’s their ceremony for their loved ones, too. No need to politicize this event. It was a difficult balance to strike. He did as good a job as could be expected. I think we need to cut him some slack. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speech-to-the-memorial-service/644252/70 "2012-12-18T15:20:37Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I’m athier than most people, but I have to say this is kind of ridiculous. He chose what might be the most general and non-denominational of Jesus’ famous sayings. Quoting John 3:16 or saying no one goes to Heaven except through Jesus would’ve been disgusting, but even a more evangelical president probably wouldn’t have been that stupid. He said the kingdom of Heaven belongs to children. Fine. I might’ve mentally rolled my eyes had I been there, but it was a memorial event, he’s a Christian, and I’m not surprised he had something Christian-related to say. > > Proselytize: _n_ “to induce someone to convert to one’s faith.” Evangelize: _n_: “To preach the gospel to; To convert to Christianity.” I’d like to see much less religion in our public discourse, but you have to do a great deal of straining to call this proselytizing or evangelizing and we don’t need to start making up rules about how the president can’t so much as mention Jesus at a memorial service. “Fine. I might’ve mentally rolled my eyes had I been there, but it was a memorial event, he’s a Christian, and I’m not surprised he had something Christian-related to say.” I’ll agree to all that on one small condition - I be allowed to add at the end “in advancement of his personal Christian agenda.” Again, mentioning Jesus at a memorial service and doing so when you know its going to be live broadcast out of context, in a manner of speaking, are two different things. He’s no idiot; I would claim he may be the smartest and most aware President of my lifetime. He had to know what snowballs he was starting down what hills. And its already begun - from a report on the local news with a relative of one of the teachers " The family is busy preparing for a funeral, but Beamer says he’s aware of the debates the tragedy has sparked. “This happened because we’ve taken God out of our schools – that’s silly and small-minded,” he says." (full story at [Sandy Hook Principal's Cousin: "They Were Her Kids" - CBS Pittsburgh](http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2012/12/17/sandy-hook-principals-cousin-they-were-her-kids/)) ---
**Author:** ![vertizontal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/ad7895/32.png) [@vertizontal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vertizontal)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speech-to-the-memorial-service/644252/71 "2012-12-18T15:25:55Z")
I’m curious what Rush Limbaugh had to say about the Obama’s speech. Was he able to find sinister meaning from it all? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speech-to-the-memorial-service/644252/72 "2012-12-18T15:29:21Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Holy cow, he wasn’t proselytizing. He wasn’t projecting his faith onto others. You can read the Bible as literature, too, you know – and it is a very apt quote of a romantic, comforting notion of what happens in the afterlife. Or “afterlife,” wink-wink, nod-nod, if you prefer. As a hardcore atheist (though one who’s given up telling religious people how silly they are) I understood it as a literary allusion too. I’m not saying I’m a fan, exactly, but I didn’t think he was actually saying Jesus was waiting for them with a big Jesusy smile. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speech-to-the-memorial-service/644252/73 "2012-12-18T15:29:58Z")
> [@vertizontal](#): > > I’m curious what Rush Limbaugh had to say about the Obama’s speech. Was he able to find sinister meaning from it all? Limbaugh could examine Obama’s bowel movements and find sinister meaning. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speech-to-the-memorial-service/644252/74 "2012-12-18T15:32:39Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Good heavens, what a fine line some people expect him to tread. It was an interfaith memorial service, complete with a rabbi and priest. So Obama says a few lines which, if you look through the right set of filters, might be interpreted as a Christian perspective. It was not an explicit endorsement of Christianity in any meaningful sense. You don’t need much a filter to see Christianity in “Jesus”. Anyway, I’m not saying this is some huge national crisis. I voted for Obama, and this doesn’t change anything. I just like my president with a little less “Jesus” than most people, I guess. And I’m one of those atheists that is happy to cut religious people some slack. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speech-to-the-memorial-service/644252/75 "2012-12-18T15:36:39Z")
I don’t really see what difference it makes, though. Presumably at least one of those parents was an atheist, and would be just as unreceptive to a generic comment about god. In a country where the President has to end every phone call to his wife with “and God bless America”, it seems kind of pointless to be worked up over a slightly more specific reference. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speech-to-the-memorial-service/644252/76 "2012-12-18T15:39:47Z")
So he said this: > [@](#): > > “‘Let the little children come to me,’ Jesus said, ‘and do not hinder them - for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven.’ One doesn’t have to accept the divinity of Jesus in order to find comfort in these words. It’s a nice Biblical verse that mentions children, it doesn’t seem to me insensitive to non-Christians to include it. Likewise, if there was a quote from Mohammed about how much God loves children, that could have been equally inoffensively included. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speech-to-the-memorial-service/644252/77 "2012-12-18T15:48:59Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I don’t really see what difference it makes, though. Presumably at least one of those parents was an atheist, and would be just as unreceptive to a generic comment about god. In a country where the President has to end every phone call to his wife with “and God bless America”, it seems kind of pointless to be worked up over a slightly more specific reference. Two things: We atheists lost the battle long ago, and will never win it, to keep “God” out of government. But I’d like to keep it there, and not have “Jesus” (or anything else tied to a specific religion) to deal with. Just out of personal consideration, the president should leave the Jesus talk to the priests and ministers. No one expects a priest to be secular, but the president should. The non-Christians in his audience are his constituency, too. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speech-to-the-memorial-service/644252/78 "2012-12-18T17:25:55Z")
… both of us. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speech-to-the-memorial-service/644252/79 "2012-12-18T19:40:33Z")
> [@Hazle\_Weatherfield](#): > > “god called them home?” Please. ☹ And the couple of “jokes” he threw in? I voted for Obama. I love and respect the guy, but I thought his speech was vastly inferior to anything else he’s ever said. I think the notion of God calling children home is bullshit too. Ain’t no God, ain’t no Heaven. If my child had been one of the slain, and a personal friend of mine had been the one assaying to comfort me, that would have been the entirely wrong thing to say. It would have been wiser to say, “Mike, your son loved you and knew he was loved by you. I know you’re in pain, and I am too; please remember that you will not always hurt as you hurt now, and in time the good memories will predominate.” But Obama wasn’t talking to me, and going strictly by the odds he wasn’t talking to people like me. Most Americans are religious; most believe in an afterlife. It was entirely appropriate for him to share his own matching beliefs with them in this context. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speech-to-the-memorial-service/644252/80 "2012-12-18T19:52:07Z")
What I don’t understand is the complaining about the insertion of a tiny bit of religion into a religious service. If you can’t have religion in religion, where can you have it? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speech-to-the-memorial-service/644252.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speech-to-the-memorial-service/644252.md?page=5)