# Obama's speechifying **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 16, 2011, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speechifying/567837 "2011-01-16T17:26:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speechifying/567837/161 "2011-01-18T23:44:12Z")
Well, he’s no Ronald Reagan, we can all pretty much agree on that. Now that I mention it, how’s that movement to put him on Mt. Rushmore coming along? And the Grenada Memorial? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speechifying/567837/162 "2011-01-18T23:54:36Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Well, he’s no Ronald Reagan, we can all pretty much agree on that. Now that I mention it, how’s that movement to put him on Mt. Rushmore coming along? And the Grenada Memorial? I dunno but Obama has moved from [plates](http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=barack+obama,plates&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=851501602604507023&ei=Lic2Te6BJcT7lwf0kPXfCg&sa=X&oi=product_catalog_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCQQ8wIwAA#), to [Chia head](http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.geekologie.com/2009/01/24/chia-obama-2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.geekologie.com/2009/01/wow_just_wow_chia_obama_heads.php&h=392&w=450&sz=41&tbnid=FxWUWhJe4IZwlM:&tbnh=111&tbnw=127&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dobama,chia&zoom=1&q=obama,chia&usg=__xPthPsJRMdTLGmxThdaKmt7dv7w=&sa=X&ei=iyY2TcGSDMaAlAfct_D-CQ&ved=0CDAQ9QEwAw), to [concrete head](http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=101217) enroute to Mt Rushmore. The race is on. He’ll have to install his own government in Granada if he wants to make any headway. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speechifying/567837/163 "2011-01-18T23:59:39Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Already saw it. As well as in other posts and threads - [projection](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection) is not uncommon hereabouts. > > Regards, > Shodan Irony meter now broken, etc. It’s amazing that no matter what reasonable assessment rightwingers hear about the POTUS, you translate it into “OMG, BaROck’s teh awesome!!1! Best speach makr _EVAR!_” …While at the same time parroting talking points with religious devotion from your coveted set of AmeriCon Idols. This seems to go hand in hand with authoritarianism. In reality, liberals are a much colder and fickler lot. Sure, we’ll lionize Obama. Some time in the next quarter century when he’s no longer a political force. Between now and then, we’ll split our time dealing with increasingly desparate slurs from righties while criticizing every thing he actually accomplishes as insufficiently progressive. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speechifying/567837/164 "2011-01-19T02:26:52Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > Ridiculous. The ability to convey the same meaning in 50 words rather than 500 is invaluable. If you can. I listened to the speech and I think it was fine - it didn’t drone at all, and he covered a lot of different ground. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speechifying/567837/165 "2011-01-19T03:11:40Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Post 151 was followed by post 153 which goes back to Shodan’s observation. Accrediting any speech of Obama as socially transcending is an example of aggrandized hero worship. The hero worship was obvious during the election with Obama supporters incorporating his name into their thread locations like a bunch of school girls drawing hearts on their notebooks. Joanie loves Berry 4-ever. That’s what happens when a major party Presidential candidate isn’t simply the guy who appeals to the lowest common denominator. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speechifying/567837/166 "2011-01-19T03:13:26Z")
I’m disappointed that the Obama-Hitler comparison and the Obama-Jim Jones comparison were in separate posts. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speechifying/567837/167 "2011-01-19T03:24:05Z")
So we could just go straight from Hitler to Jim Jones and leave out the middleman? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speechifying/567837/168 "2011-01-19T15:46:44Z")
I don’t how Obama sleeps nights, if people are saying such desperately hateful things as “he is a no better than average speaker historically” or “he hasn’t really had an opportunity to give a speech of consequence”. _:shrugs:_ Perhaps someday y’all will realize how ridiculous it looks from the outside. Probably not, though. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speechifying/567837/169 "2011-01-19T16:10:36Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I don’t how Obama sleeps nights, if people are saying such desperately hateful things as “he is a no better than average speaker historically” or “he hasn’t really had an opportunity to give a speech of consequence”. As you know, the objections _you’re_ receiving aren’t about moderate criticisms regarding Obama’s rhetorical abilities, but about _your_ excluded middle fallacies regarding equally moderate praise from the left. So far in this thread I’ve seen exactly one speech from Obama (as candidate Obama, not as POTUS) which has been praised as “great” by lefties (including me). That one was roundly plauded in the press at the time and continues to be fairly widely regarded as an extraordinary address. Whether history sees it as “great” remains to be seen, but such a characterization is not inappropriately effusive. On the other hand, the criticisms regarding Obama’s extemporaneous speaking seem to involve neither the grammatical construction nor the content of his comments but instead exaggerate his use of common filler noises to cover pauses, something even the best extemporaneous political speakers of the 20th century (William Jefferson Clinton, William F. Buckley, Tommy Smothers\*, _et al_) exhibited in some form or another as well. Ridiculous indeed. \*[sub] 😉 [/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speechifying/567837/170 "2011-01-19T16:23:56Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > As you know, the objections _you’re_ receiving aren’t about moderate criticisms regarding Obama’s rhetorical abilities, but about _your_ excluded middle fallacies regarding equally moderate praise from the left. Actually that is a pretty bad mischaracterization of the thread. I and others have made the two objections mentioned. The response from people like **Fear Itself** and **BrainGlutton** was to compare Obama’s speeches to walking on water, and to accuse those making that rather mild observation of being blinded by partisan bias. And the usual mix of insults and blank-faced denial of the obvious. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speechifying/567837/171 "2011-01-19T16:27:04Z")
You do realize that your “walking on water” claim pretty much serves as a standalone demonstration that you’re wrong, yes? ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speechifying/567837/172 "2011-01-19T16:29:31Z")
“You guys think Obama’s the Messiah! You think he can do no wrong!” “Uh, no, we think he was the best choice, but not perfect.” “You \*worship \*Obama! You \*luuurve \*him!” :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speechifying/567837/173 "2011-01-19T16:43:16Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > “You guys think Obama’s the Messiah! You think he can do no wrong!” > > “Uh, no, we think he was the best choice, but not perfect.” > > “You \*worship \*Obama! You \*luuurve \*him!” > > :rolleyes: Our veneration of Obama is only exceeded by our fear of Palin. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speechifying/567837/174 "2011-01-19T17:10:14Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I don’t how Obama sleeps nights, if people are saying such desperately hateful things as “he is a no better than average speaker historically” or “he hasn’t really had an opportunity to give a speech of consequence”. In fairness, his ego has probably been dangerously inflated as a result of his inexorable portrayal—almost exclusively by you and the rest of the sour-grapes Right—as our first aquambulatory messiah President. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speechifying/567837/175 "2011-01-19T17:13:09Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Actually that is a pretty bad mischaracterization of the thread. I and others have made the two objections mentioned. The response from people like **Fear Itself** and **BrainGlutton** was to compare Obama’s speeches to walking on water . . . Actually that is a pretty bad mischaracterization of, well, reality. > [@Shodan](#): > > And the usual mix of insults and blank-faced denial of the obvious. And **that** is a quite embarrassing-to-you instance of psychological projection. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speechifying/567837/176 "2011-01-19T17:20:55Z")
Did he actually put his hands on Gabby Giffords before her miraculous recovery or was it just the hem of his garment? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speechifying/567837/177 "2011-01-19T17:33:16Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Did he actually put his hands on Gabby Giffords before her miraculous recovery or was it just the hem of his garment? I thought he said “Talitha koum.” ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speechifying/567837/178 "2011-01-19T18:17:43Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Our veneration of Obama is only exceeded by our fear of Palin. :eek: No!!! Don’t mention that name! **Don’t** run Palin for POTUS in 2012! **Don’t** make Michelle Bachmann her running mate! **WE BEG OF YOU!!!** _whimper_ ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speechifying/567837/179 "2011-01-19T18:42:59Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Did he actually put his hands on Gabby Giffords before her miraculous recovery or was it just the hem of his garment? I don’t know, but she’s _reading_. Whatever it is, give her another damn dose. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speechifying/567837/180 "2011-01-19T18:44:48Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > I don’t know, but she’s _reading_. Whatever it is, give her another damn dose. Maybe we should start anointing our presidents. Then they could cure scrofula! 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speechifying/567837.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-speechifying/567837.md?page=10)