Can courts set a time limit on when they have to start paying?
As someone said above it would be funny if a sheriff came in and started seizing things. I’d bet the college president is provided a vehicle and it would be great to see that towed away.
A ranking member of the college was at the protest with a bullhorn in possession of the flyers and telling students where to go to make more. This does not support their reason given for being there. They said they were there because they were “looking after” the students. I don’t understand how the Dean can say they were “above it”. They weren’t above it. They WERE it. It was a sanctioned event.
Since they’re giving out credit for this I’d like to know how many things I need to steal from Oberlin College to get my Masters. I’ll make sure to self report it to the college and not the police per their request. And it can be an honorary degree. I’ll just sell the stolen items for income. My thesis will be students running (ruining?) colleges.
For the record, it was never about free speech. It was about libel. And that’s not free. You have to pay for it. It would have cost them nothing to publicly admit they were wrong.
On top of this - what does it teach the students? How will they describe the whole thing on a job application?
I mean at my work when we apply to a job they ask for an example of how we dealt with a particular issue. They prefer we use the “STAR” format. STAR meaning Situation, Task, Action, Result.
So the “Situation” would be written here as “Students complained of being racially profiled by Gibson’s bakery”.
The “Task” would be something like “Students wanted to 1. get the bakery to admit being racist and change or 2. wanted the bakery shut down.”
Now on “Action” , The action by the students was to immediately organize a protest and hand out fliers around the business labeling them “racist” and asking people to shop somewhere else. Also was to pressure the college to cut business ties to the bakery, to put up a large sign in the student union calling the business racist, and to tell prospective students and campus visitors about the bakery. College administration supported this with rides, letting them out of class, letting them print fliers for free, free food, cutting contracts with the bakery, allowing fliers to be handed out on college property, and staff stood by encouraging them and helping pass out fliers.
What was the “Result”? Well nothing good. The business never changed, no proof of racism was found by police, and ultimately the college got a bad name and was sued millions by the bakery.
Now I think the adults on this board can see the first issue was a need of a better “Task”. They should have first had launched an investigation and talked with the bakery. They didnt. if they had they would have found out yes, the guy WAS caught shoplifting and further, they had no real history of racism. if the whole thing would have stopped there, no problem. Lessons learned.
So the students sadly didnt learn anything good. I’m not sure if the student senate or even the college itself even issued an apology even though most of the people involved had either graduated or left the college. There whole thing now is to just change the discussion and refuse to take blame.
How will these students who were involved now put this on their resume?
I’d love for you to apply your STAR criteria to the Trump Administration sometime, but that’s for another thread.
It is a bit of a messy circumstance. The college has been in a precarious financial place and the extreme magnitude of this fine could trigger its death spiral. The town’s economy is built around its eponymous college. College folds?
It’s a nice town and a good school. One my kids went there as a transfer. It is a sad thing to see happen to both.
But it is also clear that there is a very significant “college versus townie” divide there. The county overall was basically split right down the middle in Trump/Clinton, and I understand through the rumor mill that the plaintiff’s attorney focused heavily on the themes that the OP and Shodan have talked around, namely, “Fuck those liberals” in their arguments to the jury.
This post makes no sense at all.
Shodan said: “Oberlin seems to suffer from the common desire to make “free speech” mean “speech that is free from consequence”. That’s hardly limited to the left.”
He went out of his way not to say what you’ve accused him of.
You on the other hand dragged Trump into a discussion that has nothing to do with him and then went on to accuse others of something without evidence. You’re doing exactly what Oberlin did and make accusations based on a rumor mill. If anyone is flinging political cow patties it’s you. You’re engaging in mob mentality. This is how people get hurt.
You owe Shodan an apology.
Maybe in years back the town needed the college but from I read the area has developed as a suburb of Cleveland and with a diverse economy that isnt so centered around Oberlin College.
Interestingly HERE is an article on the large number of colleges which have either closed or had to consolidate since 2016. However I noticed most of them have fewer than 1,000 students. Oberlin has around 2,700.
I doubt the college itself will close but they will have to restructure. That might mean eliminating some on-campus programs or creating satellite campuses.
Thing is if the students dont go to the college, then the college will have to go to the students. Around here in Overland Park, a Kansas City suburb, several small colleges have opened satellite campuses here for popular programs such as in business or education where you can get your Masters.
And lets face it. Fewer and fewer students are wanting to go to a small town to a small college.
No, the economy there is pretty much anchored by the college. It is a town of just over 8000. Not suburban Cleveland.
Oberlin is considered part of the Greater Cleveland area and there likely are residents who commute to jobs in Cleveland or the suburbs (Cleveland itself is a 45 minute drive).
Not that there’s a surfeit of jobs outside town to make up for potential loss of the college. But I suspect the school will survive quite awhile, especially if administrators succeed in portraying themselves as victims of evil right-wingers and ramp up donations and admissions as a result.
The data. Oberlin, OH | Data USA
Really no. There are very few who commute to Cleveland and most jobs are directly or indirectly college related.
Well what college doesnt have “town vs gown” problems in some shape or form?
I dont think “F those libs” would be enough to persuade 12 random people to award all that money. 12 “random” people from the area whom I’m sure have had dealings with both Gibsons Bakery and the college. What was on trial was did the college encourage and help the students slander and libel Gibsons Bakery and its owners and the jury said yes it did. Evidence was presented, was discussed, and was believed.
And yes, it helped that the 90 year old well respected owner sat everyday in the courtroom showing injuries sustained related to the incident.
Look, it has nothing to do with Trump, Clinton, or the man in the moon. Why cant you admit the college screwed up by first backing and encouraging the protests and then did nothing to apologize or work out a deal?
They were arrogant idiots and messed up to the tune of $33 million.
Ok, I read that they had to post a $36 million bond while awaiting the appeal.
THIS article said it was posted by an insurance company in behalf of the college.
Would the college have to pay interest or pay a fee for this bond?
Another update: This article in the Wall Street Journal was written by a former Oberlin college president who was president back in the 90’s.
Now it might not let you read the article without a subscription but the former president starts out the article quoting the work of the colleges founder who emphasized looking at issues from both sides. He goes on to say that back during his tenure it was part of the job of the administration to investigate and report back on issues and conflicts with the local community. He said many times charges of say racial profiling were founded and others not but the persons involved always learned from the process. He says he was disappointed such a process didnt take place.
This makes so much sense. I know military bases have officers whos job is to be a liaison with the community.
Do most colleges have such a system?
This doesn’t make sense. If the town was split down the middle in Trump/Clinton, and the jury was representative of the town, then there would be half of the jury to which “Fuck the libs” wouldn’t be a persuasive argument.
That was the 90s. Things have changed. Today the mere accusation of racism or misogyny means that the rails have come off. You must either join the mob or be lumped in with the other side. We all know where colleges stand on that.
Do you want to be the administrator who tells the student group to calm down and let the investigation run its course? If you do, you will read the headline in the student newspaper the next day blaring “[Administrator] sides with racist grocer. Hates blacks.” There will be demands for your firing.
The college fell into this trap and it cost them. I just wish some of the students had to pay as well.
Exactly what I said above. The jury listened to the evidence and the evidence was believed.
The students will likely pay, with increased tuition costs.
Well thats the big question now is will colleges be FORCED to put the brakes on student protests?
Yeah any administrator who says “stop, let me investigate first” will probably get tarred and feathered, at first. But I think over time this will go down and students will learn to follow the rules. IF the college makes the rules clear. Colleges have been learning to deal with crazy students for decades.
And they better. After this ruling I think we will see more people suing colleges and student groups (which are college sponsored) for slander. The administrator most involved and who was down there with the protesters with the bullhorn admitted it was her JOB to follow college guidelines to ensure safety so even here their was some measure of oversight. She just did a crappy job of it.
Now sure, some students acting totally as independent and normal citizens can protest and hand out flyers and can still be held liable, but unless the college has investigated the situation and can totally endorse anything the protesters do they need to stay far away from it.
As for the students involved 3 years ago being forced to pay - isnt it interesting we arent hearing from them even those who graduated? Are they now trying to run and hide?
No, it’ll probably be enough if administrators learn not to facilitate defamation.