# Obese Children **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 25, 2003, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obese-children/190893 "2003-07-25T15:36:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![SnoopyFan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d07c76/32.png) [@SnoopyFan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnoopyFan)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2003, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obese-children/190893/21 "2003-07-26T22:02:03Z")
**An obese child could eventually DIE from its obesity.** True. So can we start going after parents of teenage smokers, too? 1/3 of smokers eventually die from it, ya know … ---
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obese-children/190893/22 "2003-07-27T01:00:23Z")
I agree that all the advertisements for junk food should probably be curbed. Also, perhaps some Public Service Anouncement type things that promote healthy eating? The FDA is currently re-doing the food pyramid, and that may help. The way the current food pyramid reads, white bread and cereals like Cap’n Crunch and Froot Loops are the building blocks for a healthy diet. Before parents can feed their kids properly, parents and kids need to be educated on what constitutes proper nutrition. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obese-children/190893/23 "2003-07-27T03:48:04Z")
What I was saying is we got a slippery slope when we start calling CPS in on fat kids and their families. I imagine it’s pretty damned terrifying to have government agents with the power to take your kids away from you – with no recourse on your part – suddenly involved in your family life. How would you like that to happen to you? Oh, that’s right it never would. You think. Whenever you give government agencies that much power over families, you are asking for abuse, like the Georgia Tann/Tennessee Home Society scandal in which more than 5000 babies in Tennessee were stolen. Here’s a link: [http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Bluffs/3592/TNBMA.html](http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Bluffs/3592/TNBMA.html) Note that Georgia Tann picked out babies who were poorly dressed or dirty or otherwise looked a little less nice than their compatriots. Be pretty easy to add obese to that list. I agree that it’s prolly a good idea to help morbidly obese kids, but hastily pulling the plug on parental rights is a very bad idea. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obese-children/190893/24 "2003-07-27T03:54:50Z")
Ive never come across a DHS / CPs worker who didn’t say thatthey had a backlog of cases, and that they were severely overworked and under-resourced. There has to be a sort of triage. Obesity takes decadess, (usually), to kill. An abusive parent can kill much more quickly. ---
**Author:** ![Fugazi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f08c70/32.png) [@Fugazi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fugazi)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obese-children/190893/25 "2003-07-27T05:15:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by IUHomer \* > \*\*So if a kid takes drugs or gets drunk is CPS going to be beome involved then too? \*\* > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SnoopyFan \* > \*\*So can we start going after parents of teenage smokers, too? > > 1/3 of smokers eventually die from it, ya know … \*\* In the case of obese parents bringing their obese children into McDonald’s, the kids really have no choice, that’s why it may be considered abuse. In the above quotes, it is usually the kids doing things behind the parents back. Now if a parent was \* giving \* their kid drugs, alcohol, or cigarettes, I’d call it abuse. ---
**Author:** ![istara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e79b87/32.png) [@istara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/istara)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obese-children/190893/26 "2003-07-27T11:18:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by monstro \* > \*\*Would parents of obese teenagers get into the same “trouble” as parents of obese toddlers? Say a child was of average weight until they reached 12 or 13. \*\* There would have to be some sliding scale. After all, parents aren’t punished if their 13/14 year old is wandering alone at the mall, but if that was a two year old, or five year old… etc. Obesity legislation would target parents of younger children dependent of their parents for food - ie not older ones that make some of their own dietary choices. BUT - a fourteen year old that was desperate to lose weight, and its parents refused to give it healthy alternatives, or money to buy its own food - that is a problem case. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obese-children/190893/27 "2003-07-27T23:32:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SimonX \* > \*\*Ive never come across a DHS / CPs worker who didn’t say thatthey had a backlog of cases, and that they were severely overworked and under-resourced. There has to be a sort of triage. Obesity takes decadess, (usually), to kill. An abusive parent can kill much more quickly. \*\* Not necessarily. Dependant on the level of obesity, it can create an early onset of type 2 diabetes, hypertension, and a host of other illnesses that can kill in far less than a decade. ---
**Author:** ![SnoopyFan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d07c76/32.png) [@SnoopyFan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnoopyFan)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obese-children/190893/28 "2003-07-28T05:32:49Z")
So who of you who supports this bright idea wants to either: 1. Foot the bill for this program or 2. Take in an obese kid after they’ve been yanked from their abusive parents? Just curious. ---
**Author:** ![Gest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9d8465/32.png) [@Gest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gest)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obese-children/190893/29 "2003-07-28T06:43:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SnoopyFan \* > \*\*So who of you who supports this bright idea wants to either: > > 1. Foot the bill for this program > or > 2. Take in an obese kid after they’ve been yanked from their abusive parents? > > Just curious. \*\* Either one for me. I fund more ludicrous things with my taxes so paying for this would be no problem for me. I’ve also fostered two at-risk kids before which was one of the most trying and yet ultimately rewarding things I’ve ever done. Some of the obese children I’ve seen are at least as at-risk as the two boys we looked after and I imagine their problem would have an easier fix too. So, I’d favour the second option out of the two you offered and I fail to see how anybody could remain obese if they were under my roof. The challenge would be to ensure maintenance of the progress made after they were beyond my control of course. Same old story with fostering though. ---
**Author:** ![KellyM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obese-children/190893/30 "2003-07-28T11:34:25Z")
Geez, **Gest** , you believe in starving children to death? Better dead than fat, eh? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![lee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lee/32/7455_2.png) [@lee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lee)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obese-children/190893/31 "2003-07-28T11:52:17Z")
When I was a teenager, one doctor told me that at 150 and 5’ tall I was morbidly obese and lectured me about the consequences. He told me that I should start a diet immediately. He suggested a fairly straightforward approach of caloric restriction. I was to reduce my calories until I started to lose weight, then maintain that level. If I stopped losing weight, reduce the calories further, etc. I was to do this until I reached my target weight of 100 pounds. I nearly died doing this. One hundred pounds was, for me, an impossible target. I hit a hard plateau at 135. At that weight I was still morbidly obese. I kept reducing my calories, but instead losing weight, I just got sick. When I was finally carted into the emergency room, and another doctor pieced together the situation, she was appalled. I very well could have died. I suffered permanent consquences from that incident, and if it had gone on much longer, they would be worse. I was just lucky that the numerous times I fainted from hunger that I did not get hurt. I was actually perfectly healthy before the diet. I was qute active, had good blood pressure, and every other measurable indicator said I was healthy. Why, when I was otherwise healthy, should my life and happiness be risked by idiots who can’t see beyond numbers on a scale. How much worse could that have been with the government on the first doctor’s side? I have never known a government program that had rules flexible enough to deal with all reasonable situations. This suggestion reminds me of nothing so much as that of the Magdalen Laundries. A bunch of busibodies that would ruin people’s lives to save them from some perceived danger which may or may not have been real. ---
**Author:** ![Gest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9d8465/32.png) [@Gest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gest)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obese-children/190893/32 "2003-07-28T13:12:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KellyM \* > \*\*Geez, **Gest** , you believe in starving children to death? Better dead than fat, eh? :rolleyes: \*\* I’m sorry if I gave that impression although I have no idea how. Did anybody else get that sort of feel upon reading what I wrote? Kelly, I’m not sure how much understanding of physiology or sound nutrition you have, but if you think (in the case of obese children) severe caloric restriction or ‘starving’ is the only or even best solution, then I can only speculate as to the state of your own health. A far better solution is usually greatly increased physical activity which has a number of benefits beyond dieting for obese kids who are often completely sedentary. It increases the basal metabolic rate, it assists in the development of gross motor skills, it’s arguably better suited to allowing the kid to socialise, it’s fun and it gives them a genuine appetite as opposed to the morose face stuffing whilst sitting in front of a television or console. And with a genuine appetite, they can truly enjoy one of life’s greatest pleasures; food. Lots and lots of it with regard to variety, nutritional value and yes; quantity. I definitely don’t recall either of our boys ‘starving’. Ponderously pushing themselves away from the table after my ex’s typically massive servings of vegetarian lasagna maybe, but nope, no emaciating. And I don’t recall them pining for the doughnuts and chips they’d previously gorged on (when they _were_ fed) either. You made a poor assumption, in the wrong direction and now I’m just waiting for you to level the accusation that I had them digging trenches and breaking rocks in our back yard whilst under the lash. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![KellyM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obese-children/190893/33 "2003-07-28T13:24:31Z")
**Gest** , read **lee** ’s post and tell me that you wouldn’t have insisted that she follow the diet recommended by her to her first doctor even when it failed to cause her to lose weight below 135 pounds. At that point she was still “morbidly obese” and by your own words she would have had to lose more weight if she were to remain under your roof. My health is not an issue in this thread, but since you mistakenly believe it’s relevant, I’m 34 years old, 6’0" and 150 pounds. According to the last set of tables I looked at this puts me solidly in the middle of “normal weight”, although in reality I could stand to gain another five to ten pounds. I do **not** believe that caloric restriction is an generically appropriate response to childhood obesity. I do not even believe that it is a good response in the majority of cases. I strongly suspect that using caloric restriction in juveniles is just priming the pump for a lifetime of “binge and bulge” cyclical weight loss and gain, which is a great way to gain weight and harm health in the long run. I think America’s current obsession with obesity is harmful and simpleminded, and that more individualized approaches to obesity needs to replace the current singleminded “fat = bad” mentality that pervades the public psyche. Why is it so wrong to expect doctors to treat the patient, not the statistic? ---
**Author:** ![Gest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9d8465/32.png) [@Gest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gest)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obese-children/190893/34 "2003-07-28T14:47:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KellyM \* > **Gest, read lee’s post and tell me that you wouldn’t have insisted that she follow the diet recommended by her to her first doctor** I don’t see where she recommends anything. The doctor OTOH, that prescribed the diet was an idiot and possibly should have been struck off for endangering her life like that. It seems bizarre based on what she wrote. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KellyM \* > **At that point she was still “morbidly obese” and by your own words she would have had to lose more weight if she were to remain under your roof.** I’d like to see an independent cite calling that morbid. And based on only two simplistic measurements, I’m hesitant to even call it obese at all. You’re mischaracterising what I wrote with the rest. What I meant, and clearly expressed, was that an obese child would attain a healthier weight as a matter of course by sharing in the same levels of activity that I engage in. Please do without the suggestion of duress implicit in your post. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KellyM \* > **My health is not an issue in this thread, but since you mistakenly believe it’s relevant…** Well actually, I don’t really care. You’re an adult and your health, habits and understanding of health issues are solely your own responsibility. However, I questioned your situation because you made the completely unfounded assumption that ‘starving’ was the only way to deal with obesity. You didn’t seem to countenance that exercise could be the greater part of the solution. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KellyM \* > \*\*I do **not** believe that caloric restriction is an generically appropriate response to childhood obesity. I do not even believe that it is a good response in the majority of cases. I strongly suspect that using caloric restriction in juveniles is just priming the pump for a lifetime of “binge and bulge” cyclical weight loss and gain, which is a great way to gain weight and harm health in the long run. \*\* Substantially what I said in the second and third paragraphs of my first post. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KellyM \* > **I think America’s current obsession with obesity is harmful and simpleminded, and that more individualized approaches to obesity needs to replace the current singleminded “fat = bad” mentality that pervades the public psyche.** I think this is a cultural issue; Americans vs rest of the world. It goes beyond the parameters of the OP but many people outside the US would say that if America has an obsession with obesity it’s because America has an enormous health crisis with obesity. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KellyM \* > \*\*Why is it so wrong to expect doctors to treat the patient, not the statistic? \*\* I never said it was and I’m sorry it seems I’ve struck a raw nerve with you. **lee’s** case was almost criminally absurd and incredible. To take two figures and diagnose obesity like that is simply bad practice. But to look at a twelve year old boy with huge breasts, several chins and weighing in at ninety kg (and it is far more common in America that outside) leaves me in no doubt that intervention is vital. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Eris\_I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f05b48/32.png) [@I\_Eris\_I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Eris_I)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obese-children/190893/35 "2003-07-28T17:20:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KellyM \* > \*\*Geez, **Gest** , you believe in starving children to death? Better dead than fat, eh? :rolleyes: \*\* Umm… where did you get that? That’s not what I read at all… 😕 ~Eris~ ---
**Author:** ![I\_Eris\_I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f05b48/32.png) [@I\_Eris\_I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Eris_I)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obese-children/190893/36 "2003-07-28T17:28:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lee \* > \*\*I have never known a government program that had rules flexible enough to deal with all reasonable situations. > \*\* Does that mean no government programs should exist at all? Just because some of them aren’t perfect, does that mean we should do away with them altogether? Also, the advice your doctor gave you was ridiculous. Basically starving yourself is _not_ the way to lose weight. Increased exercise is really the way to go. With all our cars and phones and everything today, we don’t get near the exercise we should, myself included. ~Eris~ ---
**Author:** ![I\_Eris\_I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f05b48/32.png) [@I\_Eris\_I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Eris_I)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obese-children/190893/37 "2003-07-28T17:43:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fugazi \* > \*\*In the case of obese parents bringing their obese children into McDonald’s, the kids really have no choice, that’s why it may be considered abuse. In the above quotes, it is usually the kids doing things behind the parents back. Now if a parent was \* giving \* their kid drugs, alcohol, or cigarettes, I’d call it abuse. \*\* I agree with this. Most teens that are very obese are that way because that is how they were raised. Their parents often feed them unhealthy foods from a very young age. Because the children are solely dependent on their parents’ choices of food, then it should be considered abuse if they aren’t providing appropriate things. I think giving a child only bread and water is just as abusive as feeding them pizza every night. Once the kids are teens, and have their own money to buy the food (or cigarettes, etc. ☹ ) that they want, then it’s no longer child abuse. It’s only child abuse if they are \*dependent \* on the parents and the parents _provide_ the food, cigarettes, etc. ~Eris~ ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obese-children/190893/38 "2003-07-28T18:48:24Z")
Is there any problem in the US _at all_ that cannot or should not be up to the government to fix? I’m serious. Is there anything - anything at all - about which I am entitled to tell the government to MYOB? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obese-children/190893/39 "2003-07-28T19:54:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gest \* > \*\*I’m sorry if I gave that impression although I have no idea how. Did anybody else get that sort of feel upon reading what I wrote? \*\* I didn’t. And I don’t know where the hell she got that. But I commend you on your fostering kids. ---
**Author:** ![Dob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Dob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dob)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obese-children/190893/40 "2003-07-28T20:03:27Z")
I think getting the govt. involved with this would be a HUGE mistake! Maybe just more education for the parents would help. And I wonder at what age do you stop holding parents responsible for something like this? Holding a parent responsible for having a obese 17yr old is a bit silly. If at 17 you dont know that eating fast food is making you fat, well, maybe we should hold the school responsible? I wonder tho how many countries in the world would LOVE to have this problem!? To many fat kids? It truly is no wonder why America is seen as the decadent empire!! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obese-children/190893.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obese-children/190893.md?page=3)