# Obesity is now an illness. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 16, 2004, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obesity-is-now-an-illness/255449 "2004-07-16T17:32:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obesity-is-now-an-illness/255449/41 "2004-07-16T19:43:14Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > Most of what you’re talking about would be paid for by insurance companies. Or would you simply weed out everyone who had a hand in their own sickness. Accident victims, burn victims, bad teeth, VD, and on and on. Where do you draw the line? The article says that Medicare is going to start paying for stomach stapling and diet programs, not their own insurance. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obesity-is-now-an-illness/255449/42 "2004-07-16T19:45:29Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Yeah, there’s a good reason to defy medical science and wallow in ignorance. “My taxes are too high.” :rolleyes: Methinks you didn’t bother to read the very first paragraph in the linked article. > [@](#): > > WASHINGTON - Medicare now recognizes obesity as an illness, a change in policy that may allow millions of overweight Americans to make medical claims for treatments such as stomach surgery and diet programs. Underlining mine, obviously. Explain to me why my taxes need to go toward diet programs and stomach stapling for people who could lose weight if they would just start taking a short walk after dinner and stop eating a pint of Ben & Jerry’s every time they get depressed about how fat they are? Furthermore, how is it “defying medical science and wallowing in ignorance” to expect people to lose weight on their own? ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obesity-is-now-an-illness/255449/43 "2004-07-16T19:47:01Z")
> [@Boldface Type](#): > > So, you _are_ happy to suggest that 30-35% of Americans are suffering from an illness… Yes, although I’d put the numbers higher than that, just going by the people I see at work every day. > [@](#): > > One problem with this definition is that it is a slap in the face for those who are obese through genuine medical concerns - no distinction is made between those who are fat through simple inactivity et al., and those who have problems a la **phouka**. I warrant that relatively few obese people actually suffer from some medical condition that directly leads to their fatness. Why do you feel the need to distinguish between them? The end result is that they’re fat and they’re going to have a variety of other illnesses because of it. Just as different cancers are treated with different therapies, different forms of obesity will be treated differently. The end result will still be healthier people. > [@](#): > > For the most part, obesity is a direct result of the abundance of supercalorific foods and the lack of a need to routinely exercise. In that sense maybe you should argue that society is ill, not the individuals. The illness is plenty, and I’ll have a double portion, ta. I agree. And while it’s apparent that we have a social problem regarding mass quantities of food intake, it doesn’t diminish the fact that it is individual lives who are being affected. These are individual people who are too sick to work, to walk, to breathe… Lung cancer is mostly brought on by smoking. Do you withhold quality treatment because it was self-induced? Of course not. You recognize a problem and you devise ways to treat it. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obesity-is-now-an-illness/255449/44 "2004-07-16T19:53:25Z")
As someone who had many obese people in her family, and who has struggled to keep her weight down all her life I said unto you: Not all these people have some inherent innability to lose weight. Not the majority. Not even a significant minority. It is impossible to say that over 30% of the American population (an a bunch of other countries) suddenly ‘developed’ this ‘obesity gene’. Why does it manifest just now? Food is good, it tastes good, but as ANYTHING ELSE taken in excess is not a good thing. It is just that simple. ¿Comprende? ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obesity-is-now-an-illness/255449/45 "2004-07-16T19:53:36Z")
> [@Lord Ashtar](#): > > The article says that Medicare is going to start paying for stomach stapling and diet programs, not their own insurance. Fine (although private insurance will probably follow suit). So what! Do you withhold medical treatment from a woman who was beaten by her husband, because she knew he was a violent asshole? Do you withhold treatment from someone who was speeding and wrecked their car? Alcoholism should no longer be treated? Control of the problem shouldn’t have anything to do with it. Sick is sick. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obesity-is-now-an-illness/255449/46 "2004-07-16T20:02:36Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > Or, maybe, there is a systematic problem that we are facing. You got that right! This is not a problem of genes, enzymes, hormones or metabolism levels, it’s our society. We’re going from a society that worked with their hands and bodies, and ate sparingly to a society that can easily afford to stuff themselves with food and sit on their asses all day. That’s the problem… the solution is something else, and it won’t be easy to find. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obesity-is-now-an-illness/255449/47 "2004-07-16T20:02:59Z")
LORD ASHTAR – > [@](#): > > Explain to me why my taxes need to go toward diet programs and stomach stapling for people who could lose weight if they would just start taking a short walk after dinner and stop eating a pint of Ben & Jerry’s every time they get depressed about how fat they are? Well, because it’s blindingly obvious that it is beyond the willpower of many (most?) Americans to “just start taking a short walk and stop eating” bad foods. And in theory, if you pay your tax dollars to assist them in confronting their obesity now, you will not have to pay your tax dollars for their treatment for cancer, diabetes, or hypertension later. And hopefully it will be cheaper for you. That said, I don’t think it’s an illness, but more of a “disorder” or “condition.” I’m not sure what difference that makes at the end of the day, though. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obesity-is-now-an-illness/255449/48 "2004-07-16T20:05:18Z")
> [@Lord Ashtar](#): > > Explain to me why my taxes need to go toward diet programs and stomach stapling for people who could lose weight if they would just start taking a short walk after dinner and stop eating a pint of Ben & Jerry’s every time they get depressed about how fat they are? You really think it’s just that simple, don’t you? Have you been reading other peoples’ posts? ---
**Author:** ![B.Serum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/b.serum/32/14266_2.png) [@B.Serum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/B.Serum)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obesity-is-now-an-illness/255449/49 "2004-07-16T20:07:23Z")
> [@phouka](#): > > … **Hey, you** , **Giraffe** , **Colophon** I’m glad you’re not fat… phouka, I _am_ overweight. Moreover, three months ago, I was 15 pounds heavier than I am now. I lost those pounds by (1) eating less and (2) exercising regularly. I’m only 15 pounds into it and I still have a ways to go, but my firsthand experience tells me that the “classic” method is not a waste of time and it doesn’t involve Blue Cross / Blue Shield card. I personally am not slamming people who go the surgical route. However, I do take exception to placing obesity in the same group as — for example — leukemia; both for personal reasons and out of a matter of principle. ---
**Author:** ![phouka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c5a1d2/32.png) [@phouka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phouka)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obesity-is-now-an-illness/255449/50 "2004-07-16T20:13:37Z")
[Pulling hair out and growling in frustration] Jesus Fucking Christ with an extra side of mayo! Do you people know _ANYTHING_ about obesity? Like the fact that once the fat cells are present, the body starts becoming tolerant of insulin, which leads to higher insulin levels, which leads to greater hunger, which leads to more eating, higher blood sugar and then . . . more fat. My obesity isn’t any different from anyone else’s. If you’re going to cut me slack because I have hyperinsulemia, insulin tolerance, Syndrome X, and PCOS, then you need to cut the vast majority of other fat people the same slack, because they aren’t much different from me. So cut me slack, that’s lovely, but how about you save the judgement you’d like to make on all the other fat people out there, because they’re probably not too different from me. Losing ten or twenty pounds can be done through willpower. I’ve done it. And then I’ve immediately gained it back, with more, the next time I had an emotional upset, a change in jobs, or any little thing that required my willpower be applied in a direction other than my eating habits. Obesity, however, is defined as a percentage of body weight that’s usually 30 or 40 pounds of fat. By the time a person gets to that level - for whatever reason (illness, handicap, emotional problems, financial difficulties, laziness, whatever) - they’re then trapped in a vicious cycle. **That’s why obesity is a disease.** Someone who’s ten pounds overweight can lose the weight in a couple of months just with a few minor modifications to their eating habits. Someone who is clinically obese can’t. Exercise becomes extremely difficult because of the weight they’re carrying. Dieting only shifts their metabolism into starvation mode, so that they retain the weight they have even better. A majority of Americans are obese, not because we’re lazy fat asses, but because our world has changed drastically in the last 100 years. Even in the last 25 years. We’re an industrialized nation, which means fewer and fewer of us make our living through physical labor. Calorie dense, sugar laden, fiber lacking food is now much cheaper than the food our bodies are adapted to. The result is the skewing of insulin production, blood sugar, and all the other systems those elements affect. Europe is right in line behind us. In ten years, you’ll be seeing similar statistics from them. The only countries that aren’t looking down the barrel of a fat gun are those that haven’t fully industrialized yet. [/Pulling hair out and growling in frustration] ---
**Author:** ![B.Serum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/b.serum/32/14266_2.png) [@B.Serum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/B.Serum)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obesity-is-now-an-illness/255449/51 "2004-07-16T20:16:39Z")
Is the obesity situation a worldwide problem or an American one? Discuss. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obesity-is-now-an-illness/255449/52 "2004-07-16T20:20:36Z")
> [@Boldface Type](#): > > I warrant that relatively few obese people actually suffer from some medical condition that directly leads to their fatness. Then you warrant wrong, I’m afraid. Millions of Americans are being treated for hypothyroidism, and another 13 million suffer undiagnosed, according to a study published in _Archives of Internal Medicine_ in February 2000. > [@](#): > > [http://www.riskworld.com/pressrel/2000/PR00a049.htm](http://www.riskworld.com/pressrel/2000/PR00a049.htm) > > The study found that of the 25,862 participants, 11.7 percent had abnormal serum TSH levels. Evaluating incidence according to over- and underactive thyroid cases, 2,450 patients or 9.5 percent had an underactive thyroid (hypothyroidism) and 570 or 2.2 percent of the population had an overactive thyroid (hyperthyroidism). > > “Surprisingly, the prevalence of hypothyroidism was higher than expected,” Dr. Ridgway said. “Based on previous data, we suspected five to ten percent of the population had a failing thyroid gland. But these results here showed that hypothyroid prevalence was on the higher end – closer to 10 percent.” > > Among patients not taking thyroid medication, 8.9 percent were hypothyroid and 1.1 percent were hyperthyroid. This indicates 9.9 percent of the population had a thyroid abnormality that had most likely gone unrecognized. When extrapolated to account for national demographics, there may be 13 million Americans with an undiagnosed thyroid condition. You do know what one of the major symptoms of hypothyroidism is, right? Weight gain. And an extreme difficulty in losing it, seeing as how there’s diminished thyroid function, lowering metabolism. Oh, and joint pain and chronic fatigue are 2 of the other major symptoms. Try losing weight when you can’t easily exercise due to severe pain and can’t metabolize what you eat (no matter how little) because your thyroid doesn’t work. But go on calling the majority of overweight people lazy pigs if it makes you feel better. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obesity-is-now-an-illness/255449/53 "2004-07-16T20:25:59Z")
I haven’t been anywhere but the U.S., so I can’t say first-hand if we’ve cornered the market on obesity, but my guess is it’s a much bigger problem here than anywhere else. For one, Europeans walk a helluva lot more than we do. My friend went to France and said nearly every woman was a size 4 and had a great ass. That’s from USING YOUR BODY. We have created our own problem and we’re dying from it. This isn’t just a “too fat to get a date” issue. It is life threatening and it’s a huge percentage of our workforce. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obesity-is-now-an-illness/255449/54 "2004-07-16T20:27:30Z")
> [@phouka](#): > > Obesity, however, is defined as a percentage of body weight that’s usually 30 or 40 pounds of fat. Obesity is defined as BMI\>30. Overweight is BMI\>25. BMI=w/h^2, where w=weight in kilograms and h is height in meters. For imperial, substitute inches and pounds, and multiply by 703. Just thought I’d share. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obesity-is-now-an-illness/255449/55 "2004-07-16T20:30:26Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > My friend went to France and said nearly every woman was a size 4 and had a great ass. FWIW, the French aren’t exactly known for eating Twinkies, but neither are they known for eating rabbit food with fat-free dressing on the side. Make of that what you will. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obesity-is-now-an-illness/255449/56 "2004-07-16T20:33:58Z")
How accurate is the BMI? If it only measures weight vs height, then it doesn’t differentiate between fat weight and muscle weight. Muscle weighs more than fat, so some 6’ man who works out two hours a day at the gym and is bulging with muscles could be called obese, right? If there is an underlying medical condition that makes it difficult for one to lose weight, then maybe I could grant that obesity in that patient’s case is an illness. But if it’s behavioral (more food going in, less energy expended in exercise), then I can’t swallow that. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f07891/32.png) [@Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Plastic_Ninja)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obesity-is-now-an-illness/255449/57 "2004-07-16T20:35:23Z")
“All an alcoholic needs to do is just get off his stupid hairy welfare ass and stop drinking! Why is that so hard? Just don’t do it! Do something else instead!” “Depression? You just can’t stand to get up and do anything? Just get up and do something! Work, run, garden, whatever! Feeling suicidal? Kill yourself and save us the air!” “Hey, if you didn’t look both ways before crossing the street, it’s your own damn fault that guy ran you over. We’re not fixing your legs.” “You wouldn’t have emphysema if you didn’t smoke. You don’t deserve an iron lung.” Don’t you suppose that some people, shocking as it is, need to be educated to how they can take better care of their bodies? Does it occur to you that perhaps not every obese person gorges themselves with ice cream and cake? Do you have any idea how phenomenally hard it _is_ to “just go run a mile” when you’re carrying an extra hundred pounds? Do you suppose everyone knows what the best ways to exercise are? Do you figure that, even if this is taken on by health insurance companies, that they’ll just see someone overweight and throw them into surgery that day? No – they’re still more likely to counsel them on proper diet and exercise. Yes indeed, I would be healthier if I exercised more (I eat pretty darn well already. Fresh vegetables and fruit, lean meat, and still overweight). Granted, I’ve been at least a little overweight for many years, even when I was running two miles every morning and eating very well indeed. But surely I screwed up, somehow. Maybe I was running wrong. How dare you say that just because you don’t have a problem means that it isn’t a problem anyone should be concerned with, and certainly not one you should pay for. “That family’s homeless because they’re too lazy to work. I’m not paying taxes so they can suck up welfare.” Nice. Good way of caring for your fellow man. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obesity-is-now-an-illness/255449/58 "2004-07-16T20:35:33Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > Millions of Americans are being treated for hypothyroidism, and another 13 million suffer undiagnosed Were all these people undiagnosed and fat 50 years ago when our society as a whole was much thinner? Frankly, I’m unconvinced that the increasing number of obese people is due to sudden widespread glandular problems. The glandular problems may exist, that does not automatically mean they are the cause of rampant obesity. ---
**Author:** ![Iridium](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e8c25b/32.png) [@Iridium](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iridium)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obesity-is-now-an-illness/255449/59 "2004-07-16T20:44:41Z")
> [@Mighty\_Girl](#): > > It is impossible to say that over 30% of the American population (an a bunch of other countries) suddenly ‘developed’ this ‘obesity gene’. Why does it manifest just now? It’s definitely showing up in rich countries, what’s curious is how acutely the US population is affected ([BBC NEWS | Business | Economists tackle US obesity](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/2665793.stm)). As usual, environmental (as in media, advertising, etc.) and cultural factors have just as much to do with obesity as genetics. It’s entirely possible that food producers have something to do with this, by encouraging frequent snacking (especially for kids) and other lifestyle shifts that include eating more frequently. Also, people may have less time for actual meals and resort to fast food or other convenient (processed, sugary, deep-fried) solutions when they’re in a hurry. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obesity-is-now-an-illness/255449/60 "2004-07-16T20:49:55Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > How accurate is the BMI? > > If it only measures weight vs height, then it doesn’t differentiate between fat weight and muscle weight. Muscle weighs more than fat, so some 6’ man who works out two hours a day at the gym and is bulging with muscles could be called obese, right? Good enough for the medical community, although they do like to also measure percentage fat, waist and hips, and body surface area as well. > [@](#): > > If there is an underlying medical condition that makes it difficult for one to lose weight, then maybe I could grant that obesity in that patient’s case is an illness. But if it’s behavioral (more food going in, less energy expended in exercise), then I can’t swallow that. I think the problem is that it may start out behavioral, but later becomes medical. Once the pounds go on, it can be extremely difficult to lose them. Have you ever watched a fat person eat? True, sometimes you see them snarfing down the donuts. But often they eat healthier than most thin people. I swear I eat healthier than most of my thin friends. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obesity-is-now-an-illness/255449.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obesity-is-now-an-illness/255449.md?page=4)