# Obesity: US v. The World **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 8, 2013, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obesity-us-v-the-world/652368 "2013-03-08T13:12:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obesity-us-v-the-world/652368/21 "2013-03-08T18:31:14Z")
> [@epbrown01](#): > > I’m guessing it might be a left-over (heh) from admonishments to clean your plate, grow big and strong, or just when work was more physical and we burned more calories. Some people never ramp down when their activity level drops, which is why you see so many chubby people saying “You work out, huh? I used to \.” But wouldn’t this “clean your plate” mentality be present among non-Americans, many whom share the same ethnic roots and cultural influences as Americans? Why would Americans be unique in this regard? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obesity-us-v-the-world/652368/22 "2013-03-08T18:38:30Z")
When I cleaned my plate in England, it was a plate half full of relatively health food. When I clean my plate at my in-laws’ house, it’s a plate loaded with meat and starch. > [@xnylder](#): > > I believe that in general, Canadian cities tend quite walkable, and have many public transportation options. ([Here’s a comparative list for walkability.](http://www.walkscore.com/rankings/)) And while there are many excellent walkable (and bus-able and subway-able) American cities, keep in mind that most of the Canadian population is concentrated in large cities, while the American population is more evenly distributed over areas where not having a car isn’t an option. I think our overall lower real estate prices give people more choices too. Most people I’ve met who live “out in the country” (say, an hour or more from the nearest city) do so not primarily as a cost-cutting measure, but because they enjoy active, outdoor activities. > > I’d say this walkability plus public transportation leads to more walking overall, increasing exercise levels and maybe even changing eating habits. Aren’t Americans increasingly stopping at drive-throughs and eating fast food meals in their cars? It seems to me that’s a significant contributor to obesity. (Not that we’re innocent of that: I’m pretty sure the only reason drive-through poutine hasn’t taken off is that it’s hard to eat in a car without spilling gravy everywhere… 😃 ) This. I live in Orlando, Florida, and the only people who walk anywhere are the ones who can’t afford to travel any other way. Our buses run on the hour on _busy_ routes, and we have no mass transit. My wife and I went to NYC for a week for our honeymoon. We’re not fat (though I am heavier now than I’ve ever been before), but we both felt healthier than we had since college after a week of forced walking. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obesity-us-v-the-world/652368/23 "2013-03-08T18:57:45Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Just in case it’s not clear, it’s not a mystery to me why we look at portion sizes when we talk about obesity. Just want to point out that it’s not necessarily a cause, but rather an effect. Well, it’s not “the” cause, I’d certainly agree. I suspect it’s part of a whole web of causes, not one of which is by itself determinative. Such things are both cause and effect, as each influences the other a little bit. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obesity-us-v-the-world/652368/24 "2013-03-08T19:02:27Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > I believe portion size is the most readily observable difference (it is hard for the average person to see trends over time like consuption of fresh fruits and veggies). > > If you are Canadian, you tend to notice how much larger average servings are south of the border - though increasiningly (perhaps inevitably) that is happening north of the border, too. > > In fact, Canadian restaurant chains have started up capitalizing on the reputation US restaurants have of serving gigantic portions. I can think of two Canadian chains which have adopted “US names” specifically to appeal to Canadians and which are mostly famous for serving massive portions of food - Boston Pizza and Montana’s. Neither have anything to do with Boston or Montana originally (though the former has in fact expanded into the US!). > > [Boston Pizza - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Pizza) > > [Montana's - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montana%27s_Cookhouse) > > Montana’s in particular serves truly gargantuan portions - in true “US style” (at least, according to Canadians :D), an appetizer serves as an ordinary meal; only the most determined could possibly eat an appetizer, a main, and a dessert. Oh my God do I need to go to Montana’s > [@](#): > > KAPOW! SHRIMP! > > Jalapeño popcorn shrimp, deep fried and tossed in our signature KAPOW! sauce. We call it ‘KAPOW!’ ‘cause of the combo of creamy garlic, tangy Thai chili, fresh cilantro, and lime juice packs a blast of flavor that’ll hit you right between the tastebuds. You can’t make this shit up 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Michael63129](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3da27b/32.png) [@Michael63129](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael63129)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obesity-us-v-the-world/652368/25 "2013-03-08T19:48:18Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > hardly, since nobody worth listening to has advocated that position. Not carbs _per se_, but refined carbs are the problem, along with all of the refined (and how much of that Italian pasta is whole grain?) grains and fats we consume (as [this chart](http://www.graphoftheweek.org/2012/06/body-weight-in-united-states-part-3.html) that I have previously posted in these kind of discussions shows): ```auto Food Calories % of total Meat 470 18% Dairy 260 10% Fruit 90 3.5% Vegetables 120 4.6% Grains 620 23.8% Added fats 600 23% Added sugars 440 17% Total 2,600 ``` Contrary to some of the claims in previous comments, meat is only 18% of the average American diet, so that isn’t one of the causes of the obesity epidemic (and [this source](http://www.endotext.org/obesity/obesity7.2/obesity7-2.html) says consumption has declined over the past few decades, if by just 1%, but added sugars and fats, which make up about 40% of the above figures, and 63% including grains, have increased significantly, along with refined grains, which make up many junk foods). Note that removing added fats and sugars reduces calorie intake by 1,040 calories - to just 1,560 calories, give or take (I pulled the numbers from the latest data points on the graph). Nobody would be obese if we ate just 1,560 calories a day, which is probably less than the basal metabolic rate of many people, certainly less with even a minimal amount of activity included. Of course, portion size is another major factor, but if we reduced portion sizes with the current dietary makeup, we’d be getting even less nutrition (quick, how many Americans get enough potassium? Magnesium? Vitamin D?). I’d advocate replacing all refined grains/fats/sugars with fruits and vegetables - try eating 1,040 calories of those a day (and not all stuff like avocados), a \*sixfold \*increase over current consumption (~1,250 calories vs. 210). ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obesity-us-v-the-world/652368/26 "2013-03-08T20:27:20Z")
> [@Michael63129](#): > > …Contrary to some of the claims in previous comments, meat is only 18% of the average American diet, so that isn’t one of the causes of the obesity epidemic … I’m not reading anyone claiming that meat is the culprit. Closest to it is my providing cited data that Canadians eat less meat, more fish, a huge amount more vegetables and fruits, and are more physically active. That said there is no getting around that Americans, [at 122.79 kg/person/yr of meat consumption](http://chartsbin.com/view/bhy), are eating lots more meat per capita than other countries. Not claiming it is a cause. Still, you with the face’s question remains: why, do you think, do Americans eat so many extra calories … specifically in the form of added refined carbs, sugars, and added fats? ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obesity-us-v-the-world/652368/27 "2013-03-08T20:28:34Z")
> [@epbrown01](#): > > The Gallup numbers comparing [state by state obesity rates](http://www.gallup.com/poll/160892/coloradans-least-obese-west-virginians-third-year.aspx) came out yesterday, and that made me curious about how we stack up vs [other countries.](http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_obe-health-obesity) Even the least obese states are only on par with the world’s worst, but the surprises for me are Canada and Italy. Canada because I’d figure their diet is pretty similar to the US, and Italy because 8.5% obesity in the land of pasta just seems nuts. > > Thus my questions: what explains Canada’s lower numbers than even the lowest US state? I’ve spent time in Toronto on trips and didn’t notice anything particularly healthy about the food compared to here. Smaller portions, are people more active, the cold burns more calories, what? > > And Italy: wtf? I would want to know how the data was collected and if it was collected in the same way for each country and state. The results might simply mean that Italians are the biggest liars. Also, demographics may play an important role. Unlike Canada, the US has a large racial/economic underclass in which obesity is a huge problem, so to speak. ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obesity-us-v-the-world/652368/28 "2013-03-08T22:11:26Z")
> [@epbrown01](#): > > … and Italy because 8.5% obesity in the land of pasta just seems nuts. I doubt Italians eat much more pasta than Americans, and a Mediterranean diet isn’t particularly pasta-heavy. It’s more about fresh, local ingredients and liberal use of olive oil. Also, don’t judge the Italian diet by what you see in a restaurant in Italy. Going out to eat is an event and takes up the whole evening; it’s not just a meal, and it’s not how they eat on a daily basis. Definitely don’t judge it by what we Americans call an Italian restaurant! ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obesity-us-v-the-world/652368/29 "2013-03-08T23:33:16Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > There’s stilll the complaint (about goods in general, not food) that stuff costs significantly more in Canada than USA for the same thing. > [@naita](#): > > Smaller portions FTW. To a Norwegian American portions are insane. > [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > So a better question (to me) is why are American appetites so much larger than other peoples? The explanation may be simple supply and demand. [Food costs](http://www.numbeo.com/food-prices/) in the US are generally lower than in the rest of the developed world, in some cases very much so. (Norway, for instance, has some of the highest food prices in the world; of course their portions are likely to be smaller.) It’s comparatively easy for US restaurants to compete by offering more food. The gluttonous get a big meal, and less-ravenous diners get two smaller ones. ---
**Author:** ![Francis\_Vaughan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/francis_vaughan/32/3093_2.png) [@Francis\_Vaughan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francis_Vaughan)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obesity-us-v-the-world/652368/30 "2013-03-08T23:58:03Z")
> [@Learjeff](#): > > Definitely don’t judge it by what we Americans call an Italian restaurant! Very true. Italy has a very diverse cuisine, and in many places pasta isn’t eaten at all, or is eaten in very small servings as essentially a side dish. Italians don’t load up on carbs with plates overflowing with pasta (unless they are professional cyclists.) Italian food in restaurants outside Italy can vary dramatically. Where I live we have a large emigrant Italian population, and there are superb authentic restaurants, many of which specialise in regional cuisine. But you also get the generic Italian, and they are dreadful. Food that would not be recognised as local in Italy. And don’t get me started on pizzas. Most pizzas served outside Italy often bear no relation to the real thing. A real pizza is thin, crisp, delicate and light. It is not an excuse for massive carb loading, with some large fraction of a pig or other animal cooked on top, nor is it swimming in cheese, nor is it half an inch thick of fat loaded bread. On the obesity scale, down here in Oz we are headed in the US direction. Perhaps the influx of US brands of fast foods is part of this. But over the years the number of seriously fat people in Oz has increased markedly. Absurd eating habits have taken hold in some parts of our society, and the health implications are already being felt. Some numbers put us actually worse than the US. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obesity-us-v-the-world/652368/31 "2013-03-09T00:11:30Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > I’m not reading anyone claiming that meat is the culprit. Closest to it is my providing cited data that Canadians eat less meat, more fish, a huge amount more vegetables and fruits, and are more physically active. That said there is no getting around that Americans, [at 122.79 kg/person/yr of meat consumption](http://chartsbin.com/view/bhy), are eating lots more meat per capita than other countries. Not claiming it is a cause. > > Still, you with the face’s question remains: why, do you think, do Americans eat so many extra calories … specifically in the form of added refined carbs, sugars, and added fats? I’d say we _drink_ as many (if not more) excess calories as we eat. I know way too many people who are never without a bottle of Coke or Mountain Dew. ---
**Author:** ![rivulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/839c29/32.png) [@rivulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rivulus)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obesity-us-v-the-world/652368/32 "2013-03-09T00:21:51Z")
Canada is colder. Shiver more, burn more calories. (I kid, I kid.) ---
**Author:** ![drew870mitchell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drew870mitchell/32/3946_2.png) [@drew870mitchell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drew870mitchell)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obesity-us-v-the-world/652368/33 "2013-03-09T00:34:31Z")
> [@xnylder](#): > > I’d say this walkability plus public transportation leads to more walking overall, increasing exercise levels and maybe even changing eating habits. Aren’t Americans increasingly stopping at drive-throughs and eating fast food meals in their cars? It seems to me that’s a significant contributor to obesity. (Not that we’re innocent of that: I’m pretty sure the only reason drive-through poutine hasn’t taken off is that it’s hard to eat in a car without spilling gravy everywhere… 😃 ) NPR was reporting recently that 11% of American calories come from fast food, down slightly from the previous year. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obesity-us-v-the-world/652368/34 "2013-03-09T00:54:48Z")
> [@drew870mitchell](#): > > NPR was reporting recently that 11% of American calories come from fast food, down slightly from the previous year. while a positive in and of itself, if that reduction in fast food consumption is offset by an increase in consumption of (equally unhealthy) frozen meals and lunchables from the grocery store, is there really any benefit? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obesity-us-v-the-world/652368/35 "2013-03-09T01:22:01Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > Restaurant portions are large as an attractor - “you’re getting more for your dollar!” It costs a few cents to add 50% more fries, but it makes it look like the meal has more “value” because it’s bigger. I think this is a good guess. In other words, US is the fattest because the US is the most capitalistic country in the world. If you can’t make your product taste any better so you can beat the competition, you bump up the portion sizes and watch the people bust down your door. Taste is subjective, but portion size is an objective way to rate options. I also think competition is responsible for all the processed foods in our diet. It’s not enough that something is tasty and filling. No, you’ve got to make the food appealing on an emotional level, which means you need to entrain children from day 1. And you should probably make your products addictive, too. Eating just one ain’t good for the bottom line! Other countries are quickly catching up to the US in terms of obesity. The folks at Coca-Cola, McDonalds, KFC, and Nestle know why this is, and they’re laughing all the way to the bank. Some interesting videos about global obesity: [Documentary about Brazil’s obesity problem](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzsGtoZw2Hw) [Obesity Going Global](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfENV7cW3eE) ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obesity-us-v-the-world/652368/36 "2013-03-09T01:47:10Z")
Here’s another good documentary: [India, China, Brazil, and Mexico are facing their own obesity epidemics.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGL3iT5MMdQ) ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obesity-us-v-the-world/652368/37 "2013-03-09T03:38:59Z")
> [@epbrown01](#): > > …and Italy because 8.5% obesity in the land of pasta just seems nuts. By that logic, 3.2% obesity in the land of rice & noodles (Japan and Korea) should be unthinkable. The thing is, Americans eat a huge amount of carbs at every meal - potatoes, bread, rice, pasta, pizza, cereal, muffins, cakes, pies, etc. So there’s nothing here to refute the notion that carbs contribute to obesity. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obesity-us-v-the-world/652368/38 "2013-03-09T05:10:21Z")
Not a quick read but this NYT Magazine article (extract from a book actually) is highly pertinent :[The Extraordinary Science of Addicitive Junk Food.](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/24/magazine/the-extraordinary-science-of-junk-food.html?pagewanted=1) The tastes that trigger overconsumption (read “profit”) are extensively studied and exploited, subjective maybe, but pretty reliably hard wired. And marketed at us non-stop with constant accessiblity. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obesity-us-v-the-world/652368/39 "2013-03-09T13:39:16Z")
> [@Learjeff](#): > > I doubt Italians eat much more pasta than Americans, and a Mediterranean diet isn’t particularly pasta-heavy. It’s more about fresh, local ingredients and liberal use of olive oil. > > Also, don’t judge the Italian diet by what you see in a restaurant in Italy. Going out to eat is an event and takes up the whole evening; it’s not just a meal, and it’s not how they eat on a daily basis. > > Definitely don’t judge it by what we Americans call an Italian restaurant! It will vary by location of course, but the couple of times I’ve been working in Italy and eating with my coworkers, every lunch and dinner included pasta or rice except when it was pizza. We talked about it several times, they ate the same way at home. And eating out can be a huge event or a matter of “the hotel doesn’t have a restaurant/room service”/“I don’t want to cook today”; in the first case the food is more expensive and elaborate than what you’d get at home, but not so much in the second. “Home-style cooking” is as easily found in Italy as in Spain. I do absolutely agree with the third paragraph though. For starters, a single dish from an “Italian restaurant” in the US takes up more space than a whole factory cafeteria meal in Italy, and nobody’s ever accused factory cafeterias of serving tiny portions. ---
**Author:** ![Sateryn76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@Sateryn76](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sateryn76)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obesity-us-v-the-world/652368/40 "2013-03-09T16:40:49Z")
What kind of social pressure is there elsewhere in the world regarding fat people? I sometimes wonder if the American acceptance and normalization of fatness has led to more fat people. I went to my daughter’s choir concert this week, and was amazed by the number of fat kids. Those kids would have been mocked in my school days. I’m not saying that making fun of fat people is okay, but when you have a problem like obesity, which is an addictive behavior, you often need that same type of “rock bottom” to make real change in behavior. The tears from being teased may very lead to a renewed focus on better nutrition and exercise. Do they have anything like “Mike and Molly” elsewhere? I am disturbed that a sitcom starring two obese people is such a hit - they tell jokes about dieting, but it’s never meaningful. They don’t talk about heart disease and joint trouble and diabetes. That bothers me, since it’s making it socially acceptable and funny to be 100+ pounds overweight. That’s a serious problem, and it’s not funny. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obesity-us-v-the-world/652368.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obesity-us-v-the-world/652368.md?page=3)