# Obey the warning signs. (death by flash flood) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 19, 2011, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obey-the-warning-signs-death-by-flash-flood/589606 "2011-07-19T17:27:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obey-the-warning-signs-death-by-flash-flood/589606/21 "2011-07-21T00:01:11Z")
[Three go over Vernal Falls.](http://www.modbee.com/2011/07/20/1782649/3-presumed-dead-after-going-over.html) ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obey-the-warning-signs-death-by-flash-flood/589606/22 "2011-07-21T18:04:40Z")
[Another article about the people at Vernal Fall](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/07/21/MN0H1KCRAP.DTL&tsp=1). When everybody around you is screaming at you and begging you to stop doing whatever it is you’re doing, that’s a big old hint that just maybe you shouldn’t be doing whatever it is. You especially should not take your 6- or 7-year-old child with you when you’re doing something stupid like climbing over guard rails into waterfalls. Don’t make your 14-year-old take pictures, either. Poor kids. The idiotic jerk who did that should be charged with child endangerment. ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obey-the-warning-signs-death-by-flash-flood/589606/23 "2011-07-21T19:38:08Z")
I can almost understand naive people being killed by “hidden” dangers such as a flash flood in a slot canyon (although even there, why didn’t they do any research before they set off on their grand wilderness adventure?). But falling over a huge waterfall? That’s like falling into the Grand Canyon - the danger is starkly obvious to anyone older than a toddler who isn’t blind. Evolution in action indeed! I think that some people have just spent so much time in human-built surroundings that they literally don’t comprehend the reality that nature is oblivious to human welfare. They simply have no sense of self-preservation at all. ---
**Author:** ![Lare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/53a042/32.png) [@Lare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lare)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obey-the-warning-signs-death-by-flash-flood/589606/24 "2011-07-21T19:57:56Z")
I once read the book “Off the Wall: Death in Yosemite” and found that in almost every case of someone drowning or being swept over a waterfall, the person completely ignored the warning signs and oftentimes had to skirt physical barriers as well. Also, in the similar book “Over the Edge: Death in the Grand Canyon” most of the deaths by falling were the direct result of either climbing someplace one shouldn’t or while framing (or being part of) a picture. (The famous “Back up one more step” trope.) I dread the day we will go to a park, hike to an overlook and then watch a live video feed of the waterfall/canyon that’s on the other side of the 10 foot high solid fence. For our own safety, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obey-the-warning-signs-death-by-flash-flood/589606/25 "2011-07-21T19:59:20Z")
So, there were warning signs and a guardrail that were all ignored - I don’t think “tragedy” is the right word for something this preventable. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obey-the-warning-signs-death-by-flash-flood/589606/26 "2011-07-21T20:10:45Z")
All of this reminds me of my visit to Antelope Canyon in northern Arizona. It’s a famous slot canyon whose walls are mere feet apart. Back in 1997, there had been a guide with 11 tourists who were caught when a flash flood came rushing through. The only survivor was the guide. [Here’s an account of the tragedy.](http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthread.php?24532-Antelope-Canyon-Flash-Flood-Remembered) We were told that the warning system has improved since then. ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obey-the-warning-signs-death-by-flash-flood/589606/27 "2011-07-21T20:26:50Z")
> [@Lare](#): > > I dread the day we will go to a park, hike to an overlook and then watch a live video feed of the waterfall/canyon that’s on the other side of the 10 foot high solid fence. For our own safety, of course. That’s my big fear as well. I hope that day never comes, and that most people continue to accept that there’s a certain amount of risk inherent in visiting nature, and that we shouldn’t try too hard to protect idiots from the consequences of their own idiotic actions. ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obey-the-warning-signs-death-by-flash-flood/589606/28 "2011-07-21T20:28:26Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > So, there were warning signs and a guardrail that were all ignored - I don’t think “tragedy” is the right word for something this preventable. No, but you know that’s exactly the word a lot of people will be using to describe it. Heaven forbid we call the dead reckless idiots, even though that’s exactly what they were! ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obey-the-warning-signs-death-by-flash-flood/589606/29 "2011-07-21T20:29:05Z")
> [@artemis](#): > > That’s my big fear as well. I hope that day never comes, and that most people continue to accept that there’s a certain amount of risk inherent in visiting nature, and that we shouldn’t try too hard to protect idiots from the consequences of their own idiotic actions. I hope so, too. I can see over-reacting people shutting down beautiful areas and trails because a handful of idiots (I call them Ruiners because they ruin things for everybody) can’t do the right thing. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obey-the-warning-signs-death-by-flash-flood/589606/30 "2011-07-21T21:05:32Z")
I have no problem with evolution left free to run its course. There will always be idiots in the world, but the rest of us shouldn’t have to pay the price. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obey-the-warning-signs-death-by-flash-flood/589606/31 "2011-07-21T21:14:09Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > I can see over-reacting people shutting down beautiful areas and trails because a handful of idiots Yosemite has said that they aren’t planning any changes as a result of this incident. You can’t warn against stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obey-the-warning-signs-death-by-flash-flood/589606/32 "2011-07-21T21:16:28Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Yosemite has said that they aren’t planning any changes as a result of this incident. You can’t warn against stupid. Good to hear. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obey-the-warning-signs-death-by-flash-flood/589606/33 "2011-07-21T21:59:45Z")
> [@KlondikeGeoff](#): > > Couple years ago some moron driving a Mercedes got stuck in the middle of a flooded wash. After he went to court and paid a pretty stiff fine and the rescue costs, a reporter asked him if he’d be more careful next time. He replied that he had plenty of money and would do it again if necessary. I understand that one of the Scandinavian(?) countries sets its traffic fines by income - I’ve often thought that that should be done here in the US. A $100-$200 speeding ticket can mess up a low-wage guy, but it’s just a nit to the guy who can afford the Ferrari. Set it to a day’s wage equivalent (or whatever seems appropriate) - maybe some of these people would slow down a bit (or stop for stop signs). ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obey-the-warning-signs-death-by-flash-flood/589606/34 "2011-07-21T23:08:02Z")
> [@artemis](#): > > No, but you know that’s exactly the word a lot of people will be using to describe it. Heaven forbid we call the dead reckless idiots, even though that’s exactly what they were! I’m glad to see one of the witnesses (from the second Vernal Falls link) call out the idiots for what they did: > [@](#): > > “The fear of death in a man’s face as he is about to die is not something I’ve ever seen before and I don’t want to see again,” said Bibee, who is still furious at the man who first climbed over the rail and endangered his child. “Not just that family was damaged, but all of us who had to watch those people die are damaged.” ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obey-the-warning-signs-death-by-flash-flood/589606/35 "2011-07-22T03:58:34Z")
> [@KlondikeGeoff](#): > > Couple years ago some moron driving a Mercedes got stuck in the middle of a flooded wash. After he went to court and paid a pretty stiff fine and the rescue costs, a reporter asked him if he’d be more careful next time. He replied that he had plenty of money and would do it again if necessary. Did the reporter ask this fool if he also had plenty of spare lives? Because that’s what’s relevant. Flash floods aren’t much impressed by the thickness of their victims’ wallets. Rich or poor, they all drown alike! ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obey-the-warning-signs-death-by-flash-flood/589606/36 "2011-07-22T13:53:50Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Yosemite has said that they aren’t planning any changes as a result of this incident. You can’t warn against stupid. I don’t know what else they could do. Swimming in the river above the falls is prohibited, there’s a permanent fence there, and there are a couple of warning signs with blunt language ([“No Swimming in Emerald Pool”](http://www.flickr.com/photos/jshharlow/3851362138/) and [“If you go over the falls you will die” in multiple languages](http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads18/warning1311259418.jpg)). You’d have to close the entire Mist Trail to keep people away from the top of the falls. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obey-the-warning-signs-death-by-flash-flood/589606/37 "2011-07-22T14:02:07Z")
> [@artemis](#): > > I can almost understand naive people being killed by “hidden” dangers such as a flash flood in a slot canyon (although even there, why didn’t they do any research before they set off on their grand wilderness adventure?). But falling over a huge waterfall? That’s like falling into the Grand Canyon - the danger is starkly obvious to anyone older than a toddler who isn’t blind. Maybe they think water that only comes up to your knees can’t carry you over a waterfall? This incident shows that it can and does. Water doesn’t have to be deep to be dangerous. ---
**Author:** ![chela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chela/32/21582_2.png) [@chela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chela)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obey-the-warning-signs-death-by-flash-flood/589606/38 "2011-07-22T14:31:40Z")
IF i ever find myself on the edge of a great waterfall, I would be all trembly in the knees and afraid, of upstream boulders, or some freak surge that innudates that dry flat rock that everyone is standing on, and sweeps alls the peeps over the edge. So to climb the fence and go wading in the “stream” ? Unthinkable! ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obey-the-warning-signs-death-by-flash-flood/589606/39 "2011-07-22T14:54:33Z")
“Stream” is not a good description of the water flowing above Vernal Falls right now. There are recent youtube videos that show what it’s like up there–climbing over the railings to “wade” in that torrent is pure insanity. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2013, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obey-the-warning-signs-death-by-flash-flood/589606/40 "2013-05-08T15:02:49Z")
[Hiker left note saying he was going to the top of Vernal Falls.](http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/07/us/california-yosemite-hiker-dead/index.html?hpt=hp_t2) Gravity left a note saying he’d then be going to the bottom. Note: The thread was started in 2011 so don’t necessarily respond to those posts in expectation of a reply. However, for the sake of continuity we plainly see from the repeat incidents that one of two things are a given; either the warnings in place still aren’t adequate, or, Jeez peoples sure is dumb! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obey-the-warning-signs-death-by-flash-flood/589606.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obey-the-warning-signs-death-by-flash-flood/589606.md?page=3)