# Objectification of Women in Music Videos
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/objectification-of-women-in-music-videos/115381
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [June 22, 2002, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/objectification-of-women-in-music-videos/115381 "2002-06-22T03:44:10Z")
**Posts on this page:** 14
**Page:** 5
### Author:  [@Squish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squish)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2002, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/objectification-of-women-in-music-videos/115381/81 "2002-06-24T22:47:08Z")
Where to start? OK,
**featherlou** said:
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> I find this type of video degrading because I want to be just a person, not a woman or a man and be limited by the connotations of the specific gender I belong to.
We differ then, because I don’t think being a woman limits me in any way. Despite feminist revisionism, women have _always_ had a great deal of power. If a woman wants to be a dancer, model, stripper–in short, to use her body to make a living, that’s her _choice_, and I will strongly defend that choice.
\*\*Wabbit[/] wrote:
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> And lastly, what I find so offensive about these video’s is that they protray people as essentially shallow and meaningless.
For starters, as someone’s already pointed out, they’re about four minutes long! How much “character development” do you expect? Not only that, but they’re not mini-movies; they’re a genre all their own and they are only giving visual imagery to the lyrical and musical imagery in the song. For another thing, while music moves me greatly, a lot of music is sheer entertainment, and nothing more. The particular video reflects the intent of the song.
Also:
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> My point is that by bombarding us with these images, the media is actually decreasing our appreciation for female beauty! Most women don’t look like these ‘dancers’ (and thank the Big G for that) and are extremely beautiful due to their emotional and mental characteristics as well as their physical attributes but they go unappreciated because it seems like everyone is oogling these robotic, silicon-based women.
Not in my experience. My boyfriend is gorgeous: tall and muscular with a very handsome face. Summer Altise is his desktop wallpaper; the Maxim calendar hangs beside out bed. I am only middling height, I’m plump, and I’m 16 years older than he. He loves me _and_ my body, and we have a great sex life.
As far as that ridiculous “what about the children” spiel: for the gods’ sake, _you_ had the children, _you_ raise them! Why don’t you turn off the damned TV and play games together, read together, do hobbies together?
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### Author:  [@Drastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drastic)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2002, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/objectification-of-women-in-music-videos/115381/82 "2002-06-24T23:10:00Z")
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> Not in my experience. My boyfriend is gorgeous: tall and muscular with a very handsome face. Summer Altise is his desktop wallpaper; the Maxim calendar hangs beside out bed. I am only middling height, I’m plump, and I’m 16 years older than he. He loves me and my body, and we have a great sex life.
This clicked something together in my head, which is always a nice feeling.
You know how far too many guys whine and moan about being unhappy and unlucky in love and whatnot because they’re “nice guys,” and how women say they like nice guys but really only want bad-boy jerks? Yeah, them.
What clicked was this: the general female mirror to this particular bit of male idiocy is whining and moaning about being unahppy and unlucky in love and whatnot because they’re not mass-media hardbodies, which of course are all that guys are attracted to.
World would be a better place if pretty much everyone was more comfortable in their own skin. Carry on.
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### Author:  [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2002, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/objectification-of-women-in-music-videos/115381/83 "2002-06-24T23:12:26Z")
_Originally posted by Squish_\*\*
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> We differ then, because I don’t think being a woman limits me in any way. Despite feminist revisionism, women have always had a great deal of power. If a woman wants to be a dancer, model, stripper–in short, to use her body to make a living, that’s her choice, and I will strongly defend that choice.\*\*
We _do_ differ, because I think being a woman _does_ limit me. I don’t think it should, and I don’t like it, but the reality is that being a woman is still limiting today. I don’t walk alone down downtown streets at night because I am afraid of becoming a victim. I don’t always make the same wage as a man in a similar job, or have the same prospects for promotion. We’re not at the “different but equal” point between the sexes yet.
If a woman wants to use her body to make a living, I have no problem with that, as long as she has made **the choice** to do so. I think it is unrealistic to think that every woman using her body to make a living is doing so because she has made a conscious, mature, unforced decision to do so.
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### Author:  [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2002, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/objectification-of-women-in-music-videos/115381/84 "2002-06-25T00:06:56Z")
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> \*Originally posted by Wabbit \*
> Sure, but if you constantly watch these female dancers you will lose your appreciation for **real** female beauty, much like you’ll lose your appreciation for cheesecake if you eat it all the time.
On the contrary, the videos are very good at _not_ deadening appreciation (and if they were, the whole industry would have collapsed by now), because the women are not casually nude. I’ve read of porn film crews who quickly become desensitized to the sexual activity they see every day becuase the mundane reality of a film shoot takes the sexual edge off. An attractive long-legged woman who is _not quite nude_ and presented in four-minute flashes can remain stimulating to a viewer and doesn’t necessarily deaden that viewer’s desire to watch more videos. And your statement is contradicted by men (and some women, I guess) who seek out hard-core porn, and continue to do so even after they’ve seen every possible permutation.
As for cheesecake, I love it. I wouldn’t eat it every day, but it wouldn’t surprise me if some people did. More power to 'em.
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> Again, we’re agreeing that legislation isn’t the answer here but I think that **focusing** on biological functions isn’t healthy.
Says who? By what standard? Humans do all kinds of things that aren’t individually “healthy” (like eating cheesecake) but won’t kill or injure them.
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> Sure, they’re an important part of our life but do you define who you are and how important you are by the number of times you take a dump?
Leaving dumping out of this please. I’m trying to enjoy my cheesecake, here.
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> Why should reproduction be any different? Why study art, or history, or quantum physics if we’re only defined by our physical attributes? Might as well go back to the trees and start hurling our feces at interlopers if the only true measure of a human being is how good they look in stilleto heels or how many gold hubcaps they’ve got on their car. My .02 anyway! \*\*
Wow, I like the way you crash between extremes. Sexual art forms certainly don’t preclude intellectual pursuits. If the number of video channels were quadrupled, it wouldn’t cripple university research. If anything, you’d have some scientists trying to discover ways to deliver sexual art more efficiently, and make themselves rich in the process.
Personally, I lusted after Elizabeth Hurley in her various intellectual/authority costumes in _Bedazzled_. Teacher in plaid skirt and pink angora sweater, YOW! Meter maid in tight uniform, ZOIIINGG!! Lawyer in black suit with micro-miniskirt, A-OOOGAA!!!
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### Author:  [@Squish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squish)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2002, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/objectification-of-women-in-music-videos/115381/85 "2002-06-25T00:24:21Z")
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> _Originally posted by featherlou \*
> \*\* don’t walk alone down downtown streets at night because I am afraid of becoming a victim._\*
Hmmn… I do, and always have.
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> \*\* I don’t always make the same wage as a man in a similar job, or have the same prospects for promotion.\*\*
Then why on earth would you work there?! I not only made the exact same wages, but for two years straight at my last job I was the highest-producing salesperson and got the same commission rate as anyone else.
\*\*
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With respect, I think you are limited by your own perceptions and by the value you place on yourself.
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### Author:  [@Wabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wabbit)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2002, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/objectification-of-women-in-music-videos/115381/86 "2002-06-25T00:28:26Z")
> [@](#):
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> \*Originally posted by Squish \*
> As far as that ridiculous “what about the children” spiel: for the gods’ sake, _you_ had the children, _you_ raise them! Why don’t you turn off the damned TV and play games together, read together, do hobbies together?
First, kudos about your romantic life–you’re very lucky in that regard as I suspect you realize.
However, being concerned over what children are watching is hardly ridiculous, and quite frankly I’m wondering where you’ve been the last 30 years if you think so. First, read a book called ‘On Killing’ in which the author (whose name escapes me right now) writes about how violence in society (particularly video games) pre-conditions some young men to commit murder. Different subject, but I could definitely see it working in this instance too. How else do you explain the various eating disorders **which overwhelming strike young women**? Why are these young women starving themselves to death? My view is they’re trying to become what they think society wants them to become and they’re killing themselves in the process. We agree that responsible parenting is vital (and I’ve said as much repeatedly in this thread) so that’s not the issue here; the issue is if anyone thinks these portrayals of women are healthy or not. I’m saying ‘no’ and giving reasons: what’s your answer?
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### Author:  [@Wabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wabbit)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2002, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/objectification-of-women-in-music-videos/115381/87 "2002-06-25T00:45:32Z")
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> \*Originally posted by Bryan Ekers \*
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> And your statement is contradicted by men (and some women, I guess) who seek out hard-core porn, and continue to do so even after they’ve seen every possible permutation.
Yea, but who in their right mind is going to show their kids this stuff day after day. Such a child would end up twisted (to say the least) and thinking that this porn is representative of male-female (or whatever) relationships. It’s the same thing, albeit in a much more watered down form, that videos are saying
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> Wow, I like the way you crash between extremes. Sexual art forms certainly don’t preclude intellectual pursuits. If the number of video channels were quadrupled, it wouldn’t cripple university research. If anything, you’d have some scientists trying to discover ways to deliver sexual art more efficiently, and make themselves rich in the process.
You can certainly have sexual art forms without being idiotic about it (Tantric buddhism springs to mind), but focusing your entire attention on ‘gettin some’ 24-7 is hardly going to improve humanity, is it?
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> Personally, I lusted after Elizabeth Hurley in her various intellectual/authority costumes in _Bedazzled_. Teacher in plaid skirt and pink angora sweater, YOW! Meter maid in tight uniform, ZOIIINGG!! Lawyer in black suit with micro-miniskirt, A-OOOGAA!!!
On this, at least, we can agree and I do so wholeheartedly. 😉 Now if videos portrayed women like this I might actually start watching MTV again…
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### Author:  [@Squish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squish)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2002, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/objectification-of-women-in-music-videos/115381/88 "2002-06-25T00:59:58Z")
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> \*Originally posted by Wabbit \*
> **First, kudos about your romantic life–you’re very lucky in that regard as I suspect you realize.**
Actually, I’m puzzled by your remark–are you suggesting that I couldn’t _get_ another man? The biggest turn on to most men I’ve known has been confidence–not a particular set of measurements.
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> **However, being concerned over what children are watching is hardly ridiculous, and quite frankly I’m wondering where you’ve been the last 30 years if you think so.**
You missed my point. My point is that rather than complaining about what your children watch, **turn off the damned TV**.
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### Author:  [@Squish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squish)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2002, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/objectification-of-women-in-music-videos/115381/89 "2002-06-25T01:10:51Z")
Whoops, forgot:
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> **the issue is if anyone thinks these portrayals of women are healthy or not. I’m saying ‘no’ and giving reasons: what’s your answer?**
A physically fit young woman is not an unhealthy image–not when obesity is at an alarming all-time high for Americans in general and adolescents in particular.
As for anorexia, it’s linked more to low self-esteem, depression, perfectionism and control issues than merely a desire to emulate Kate Moss. There are billions of sites on the 'net, but here’s one: [http://www.something-fishy.org/whatarethey/anorexia.php](http://www.something-fishy.org/whatarethey/anorexia.php)
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### Author:  [@Wabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wabbit)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2002, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/objectification-of-women-in-music-videos/115381/90 "2002-06-25T02:35:30Z")
No no no–not at all **Squish** : that remark was a sincere compliment. You simply sounded happy and I’m glad you’ve found someone who can make you feel like that. Believe it or not, occasionally a non-inflammatory remark will crop up in these threads, even if this is the Pit. 😉
My opinion is that those women are almost **unhealthily** perfect, especially when you take into account the amount of silicon it takes to achieve that sort of perfection. I agree about the obesity comment, btw, and about your turning off the TV remark. Given how much media saturates our lives, however, that probably won’t be enough. Restricting TV time and good parenting is really the only way to combat this kind of stuff, IMO.
I’ll take a look at that website as I’ve only read a few things on anorexia. That’ll be my reading project for the week. Thanks for providing it.
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### Author:  [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2002, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/objectification-of-women-in-music-videos/115381/91 "2002-06-25T02:40:03Z")
> [@](#):
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> \*Originally posted by Wabbit \*
> You can certainly have sexual art forms without being idiotic about it (Tantric buddhism springs to mind), but focusing your entire attention on ‘gettin some’ 24-7 is hardly going to improve humanity, is it?
You’re still crashing to extremes. Can’t I ogle Steven Tyler’s daughter for 8 hours and cure cancer in the next 8 and still get a good night’s sleep? A bit of sexual titilation doesn’t stop a person from being productive, and a bit of sexual titilation does not automatically lead to “24-7” obsession. Those who are obsessed 24-7 represent a tiny minority of the population and have no major economic or technological impact on the rest of us. At least, not enough to consider passing laws to punish them and restrict everyone.
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### Author:  [@Squish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squish)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2002, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/objectification-of-women-in-music-videos/115381/92 "2002-06-25T03:01:47Z")
> [@](#):
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> \*Originally posted by Wabbit \*
> **No no no–not at all Squish: that remark was a sincere compliment. You simply sounded happy and I’m glad you’ve found someone who can make you feel like that. Believe it or not, occasionally a non-inflammatory remark will crop up in these threads, even if this is the Pit. 😉**
Why then, thank you kindly! 🙂
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> \*\*My opinion is that those women are almost **unhealthily** perfect, especially when you take into account the amount of silicon it takes to achieve that sort of perfection. \*\*
Perhaps. Something for me to mull over. I think the key thing for women–and men, for that matter–is that, as long as you’re relatively healthy (neither emaciated nor obese), that you’re gorgeous just for being _you_!
LOL…heck, I have blue hair and a tattoo on my _face_ and my b/f’s fundamentalist parents just get a chuckle out of it.
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### Author:  [@ianzin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ianzin)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2002, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/objectification-of-women-in-music-videos/115381/93 "2002-06-25T22:19:27Z")
May I just get down and kiss the toes of **Squish**.
Sincere respect for some of the smartest, most insightful posts I’ve ever seen hereabouts.
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### Author:  [@Squish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squish)
#### Post date: [June 26, 2002, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/objectification-of-women-in-music-videos/115381/94 "2002-06-26T01:22:37Z")
Gosh, **ianzin** , thank you.
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