Obscene Prices For Clothing

:stuck_out_tongue: I saw that! You beat me to it! (yeah, I spend $200 a year just at the thrift store!)

When we went to NYC some years back, went to all the department stores just looking, and we were puzzled by the prices of the then-popular chenille sweaters. They looked just like any other chenille sweater except they were being sold for hundreds of dollars. The ones I looked at more closely revealed they were knitted from SILK. Not acrylic, nylon, or polyester like you would find at JC Penneys.

Same thing with clothing in a couple of shops in a little mall at a big hotel in Niagara Falls - hundreds of dollars for what seemed to be ordinary clothes (oh, there were ladies tops made from little woven strips of mink, of all things). The explanation there, the hotel was constantly filled with tourists from Japan, who had no problem spending hundreds of dollars in those shops! (it also explained why half the dishes at the buffet were made from that imitation-crab, in mass quantities.)

My recent experiences with “obscene pricing” is with shoes and purses as I am now a person who fixes such things for a living.

There are shoes that, due to a combination of materials and engineering, actually are worth a couple hundred dollars. They might be a pair of work boots for a tradesman that combine rugged durability, foot protection (sometimes in literal multiple layers), and a sole with engineering on par with the space shuttle (alright, slight hyperbole). They might be a pair of dress shoes or boots made of some exotic leather like ostrich (which is very durable) or crocodile or other reptile which cost much just for the raw materials. They might be a pair of hand-crafted moccasins made of butter-soft hand-tanned leather pieces assembled with exquisite precision (yes, I have seen and held such). They might be a pair of dress shoes made of rather ordinary cowhide but so well constructed, and of such high quality, that with proper care they can last for many decades.

Oddly enough, few of them are Big Name Designers. Some of them come from well-known shoemakers (well known to those in the business) but hardly household names.

Then there are pieces of crap that cost just as much, if not more, and are made of crap materials and poorly and inconsistently assembled and sold to people who think a logo guarantees quality. It doesn’t. I’ve seen off-brands and knock-off counterfeits with more quality than their big name counterparts (the latter I see most often with purses - it’s sad when the counterfeit is better made than the real thing.)

I am now firmly convinced that there are people who make purchase decision based solely on which item has the highest price. They will cheerfully walk past reasonably priced, well-constructed items to purchase overpriced crap. I wouldn’t care, except they then expect me to fix something that was wrong from the moment it left the factory.

Specifically, I’m thinking of people who go out and buy enormous second-hand API consoles for their “home studios”. That’s absolutely nuts.

This article might be instructive. It mentions a pair of $550 men’s trousers and explains why they cost that much. The slacks are made from two yards of fabric that costs $24 per yard, along with $3 per yard to import. Each pair takes about four hours to tailor at a cost of $13 per hour in a union tailor shop in Brooklyn. That brings the cost to about $110. The manufacturer doubles the cost to get a wholesale price of $220. And then a retailer like Bergdorf Goodman marks up the cost by 2.5, which explains the $550 retail price. Now, I typically wear Gap khaki trousers that cost $40-50 each, so I’d love to see these slacks to compare.

If you feel comfortable mentioning some of the, IYO, high quality to price shoemakers and pursemakers you mentioned, I’d be interested in hearing about them, Broomstick. I’ve personally wondered, with the stresses placed on, e.g., women’s shoes, whether it’d be worthwhile for high-end shoemakers to incorporate aerospace materials or engineering in the construction of their products.

EDIT: Thanks for the link, Dewey. I found it very interesting.

I don’t think the OP is talking about clothes in this same price point, however. A place with $350 swim trunks is going to spit on your $300 suit. I agree that more expensive clothes often look better: the cloth drapes better, the seams lie properly, they hold their shape better, the colors are richer. But you hit diminishing returns at some point: I have no doubt a $300 suit looks nicer than a $50 one, but I find it hard to believe that a $3000 suit is going to be ten times (or even twice) nicer than the $200 one, and I suspect that at some point up the price scale–well before $3000–it ceases to look any nicer at all.

Another article, this time about Kiton, an Italian maker of high-end men’s suits (as in $7,000 for an off-the-rack suit or $21,000 for a custom one). The article notes, “It takes 25 hours to make a jacket. Fans of Kiton clothes, and it is a devoted cult, say the garments are soft, light and exquisitely made. They are said to fit like a second skin. A suit jacket can supposedly be crushed into the crevice of an airline seat for a long flight, only to shed its wrinkles at the end.” That’s all well and good, but I think I can fly to London and have one or two custom suits made on Savile Row for less than $7,000, let alone $21,000.

Maybe one, counting in the airfare and accommodation:

But you and Manda are quite right that after a certain point, what makes the difference in suit quality is custom tailoring. Exotic fabrics or novelty features like total crushproofness are ultimately not as good an investment as high-quality materials, skilled construction for durability, and a fit expertly individually crafted for looks and comfort.

A $3000 hand-tailored suit that remains your best suit for the next three decades is still going to be more expensive than three $500 suits over the same time period, but you’ll probably get more satisfaction out of it (assuming that suit quality is a significant source of satisfaction to you in the first place).

Well, I’m not entirely sure I could identify, say, Kevlar by sight alone (although some tradesmen’s workboots do, in fact, use Kevlar (or aramid fiber, if you want the generic) in their construction. And, I was surprised to learn, in their bootlaces.

What I’m going to tell you is my observations on how to tell if a purse is well constructed and durable, which in many ways is more important that who, specifically, makes it. There are good designer purses, and good “generic” no-name purses, and a lot of crap as well, some of it counterfeits posing as high-end bags.

  1. It is made of real leather. While leather substitutes can be durable, many of them are not. They might feel nice and look nice but they don’t last. If you scuff leather the material still has thickness and strength, and the scuffs can be buffed out. If you scuff “pleather” or most other leather substitutes they look crap and you can’t do much about it.

  2. If the purse is cloth it should be of relatively heavy fabric on the outside, and please use some sort of water/stainproofing. We can apply this for you, if you so desire. Delicate fabrics do not last for daily use as a purse. (Special occasion clutches, of course, don’t have to follow this rule because they aren’t used daily and are less likely to be overloaded)

  3. In general, flat straps seem to wear better than round ones. For the average woman’s purse I’d say at least one inch wide where it anchors to the purse, that’s 2.5 cm for you metric folks.

  4. In general, stitched flap ends seem to wear better than riveted ones - probably because the rivets concentrate forces at one point while stitching distributes them across the full width of the strap. Also, it’s easier to fix stitching so it looks like it originally did. I can’t tell you how many times women have begged me to fix a broken rivet. Sorry, you can’t. You can replace it, but you can’t fix 'em. But odds are you aren’t going to find that exact fancy decorative rivet to replace it.

  5. Seams should be even. Edges extending past seams, if you can see or feel them, should be of even width.

  6. Stitching should be smooth and consistent - no hanging threads, no frayed threads, no varying stitch length, etc.

As a general rule, limiting the discussion to authentic designer goods, I’ve been very impressed with Coach products. Although the straps tend to be narrow for the size of the bag they use such high quality leather of sufficient thickness, and robust hardware, that they stand up to years of daily use. The leather bags will last forever with proper care. The cloth purses utilize fabrics that also are able to stand up to daily use for years, don’t fray, don’t snag, and don’t fade easily. Real Gucci I don’t see very often (which might well be an argument for their quality, as I do repairs, not initial sales), but while the bag itself wears well and the straps seem to endure the attachment points are almost always the first to go. I’m not sure I’ve ever seen an authentic Louis Vuitton but I’ve seen a LOT of totally crap counterfeits. Some of them look convincing but, well, they’re just awful. I don’t like to work on them - the handles are plastic that initially look leather but later crumble, literally crumble away. The “leather” is stiff and cracks, often revealing it was never leather at all.

Please, please ladies - do NOT hand me a piece of plastic, unlined, with crumbling handles and hardware that has had the “gold” or “silver” rubbed off to reveal white plastic and declare you paid $400 for this piece of shit and it’s a real Louis Vuitton. It’s not, m’kay? And that tag? “Paris” is spelled with only one “i”. Yes, that bad sometimes.

OK, shoes:

  1. I am a big fan of leather shoes. Well cared for leather lasts nearly forever (I have a 33 year old pair of boots I’m still using, for example. I am currently doing some restoration work on them, they might well last me the rest of my life). If it scuffs you can buff them out. You can renew the color. I prefer things like cow, ostrich (rarely seen in my shop, but whatever), and other durable leathers. Reptile leathers are a status symbol but you MUST, you absolutely MUST keep it properly moisturized because once it dries out and the scales start coming off it’s done.

  2. Fabric based shoes should, like purses, be made of durable fabrics. Unless you’re talking about delicate slippers worn only indoors on clean floors save the delicates for some other part of your outfit. Synthetics have their place, but they are much more difficult to repair if it’s possible at all. If you blow a seam in a fabric shoes because the stitching breaks we can fix that. We might even make it look as good as new. If you blow a seam because the fabric ravels if we fix it at all it will always be obviously repaired.

  3. It’s not that you can’t have a decently functioning one-piece welt-sole-and-heel out of molded rubber, it’s that you can’t repair it. Traditional leather soles and heals of leather and/or wood can be fixed and/or rebuilt, if necessary over and over. We can put a rubber tread on them if you need the traction.

  4. Like for the purses, the seams should be smooth, the stitching consistent and of even lengths, the edges extending beyond stitch lines should be of even width. Zippers should operate smoothly, no tugging required.

  5. Soles and heels should join smoothly. Even if made of several pieces those pieces join as seamlessly as possible.

Here’s a couple more things:
A) Ladies, about those high heels - avoid heels that are at the very back of the shoe. You want heels that center directly under your heel, which means the point where the heel touches the ground is not all the way at the back, it’s a little forward of that. This gives you better balance, for just one thing. This is one way I distinguish an authentic Jimmie Choo or Manolo Bhlanik from a knock-off, where the heels are positioned (I get kind of pissed at Bhlanik’s weird curved “taps” which invariably require sanding when I re-heel one of them instead of allowing me to slap a standard pin lift on them with minimum modification, but they do look stylish). As a bonus, your heel base is less likely to snap off at some point.

B) Men, when your heels start to wear down get some heel plate protectors to extend the life of your heels, ESPECIALLY if your shoes have a one-piece molded rubber sole/heel that can’t be fixed or replaced. The protectors cost $4 a pair. New heels start at $18 a pair. Do the math. Also, I can put the protectors on while you wait. For heels we currently have a 4-8 day wait, and even if I did them immediately it would take hours because at some points I basically have to wait for adhesive to dry. And that assumes nothing goes wrong and there are no problems.

C) Leather should be cleaned, polished, and moisturized. Why? It’s basically dead skin. What happens if you don’t clean and moisturize your skin? Yeah, like that, only dead skin/leather doesn’t heal. Pro-tip: We favor cream shoe polish on real leather. Another pro-tip: you can use it on purses, belts, and jackets, too. It has both some color and the needed oils already in it. A third pro-tip: If you can’t find cream polish to match your item, or your item has several colors in it, use neutral color - it’s just the base of the polish without pigment in it.

D) Use ordinary white vinegar to get salt stains out of leather. It also works on suede and nubuck.

E) Men, if you buy a pair of workboots get one with a quality sole. That means not crepe. Not squishy. Preferably you want a stitched welt and a replaceable sole.

F) If anything starts to be a problem get it fixed early and quickly. The earlier you bring it in to get fixed the easier it will be. If something falls or breaks off bring the detached bit in if you possibly can, it will help us make repairs. If the item is one of a pair (footwear) bring both in if you can. I will examine the mate to see if what went wrong with the broken one is about to happen to the other. It will also help me make repairs that make the two a matched set again.

Broomstick that was fascinating! Thanks for taking the time to post it. A while back I found a Coach bag at the thrift store. It looks authentic, but I’m not really the type to know just by looking at it. The leather is thick and sturdy, the zipper is strong and smooth, and it has that leather tag thingie. It’s not fancy, just a plain black zippered handbag, no logo or anything except for the hanging tag. It seems old, but it’s still in good shape except for a few scuffs.

ANYWAY…do you have any recommendations on how to figure out if it’s really a Coach bag? And if so how to take care of it? Do I take it to Coach for upkeep? Or a shoe repair place for polishing or what?

A friend of mine does custom bags. (I had previously posted about the custom camera case he made me.)

25 years ago, he was making a bunch of custom leather bags, and I have two other friends who still use the bags he built every day. One is a leather satchel used as a briefcase, and the wear it has received in all this time has only made it look even cooler. The cloth lining has been replaced once. Another is a purse/deposit bag for a friend who carries the cash receipts for the business she runs - this thing handles being stuffed with rolls of coins.

The main thing separating his work from Coach is the machine to shave leather to join two pieces with better seams. I’m going to try to get him to make a bag for my wife’s birthday.

Since my focus is almost always “how do I fix this?” rather than “authentic or not?” I’m not really the best person to ask. I am certain I’ve worked on fakes I couldn’t possibly spot as fake. There are lots of sites on-line that talk about how to spot fakes and spot the real thing, I’d suggest studying them.

I do know that some of the Coach counterfeits are pretty decent in their own right if they’re made of leather. By that I mean there are some non-Coach purses/bags that have some other logo but do closely resemble a Coach and clearly use them as inspiration that are good bags in and of themselves, and can be just as sturdy and wear just as well - but then, they aren’t trying to really fool anyone that looks at them twice. If I was buying a purse or bag I’d be inclined to get one of those but then I care more about factors other than the brand name.

The Coach website has a page on how to care for their products.

No - they don’t do polish/cleaning/upkeep. They will do repairs.

You could take it to our shoe repair for that, but shoe repair stores vary enormously in quality and competence. I’d suggest having them clean/polish a less expensive/precious leather item for you first and if you like the result then have them work on your expensive designer goods.

One thing about zippers: while researching websites on these sorts of goods I noted a number of people complaining about zipper repairs. Specifically, one woman was furious that Coach wouldn’t replace the zipper on her tote bag, she couldn’t understand why such a “simple” repair was considered impossible.

All I can say is that it’s obvious she never tried to replace a zipper herself.

Certain types of zipper repair we can do, but replacing a zipper is a major undertaking that requires us to partially disassemble the purse, then put it back together. It’s almost as much labor as making a purse from scratch. There is a definite risk of something going wrong, and the result never looking quite the same as it originally did. Particularly for thin fabrics and synthetic leathers, there is no way to do this without leaving signs that some major work has been done.

Please, PLEASE keep your zipper lubricated (we usually use silicon spray, but people have used beeswax, soap, and even lip balm in a pinch. You can even buy specific zipper lubes). The best way to fix a zipper is to prevent damage in the first place, and the best way to do that is to keep it working easily.

Replacing a pull tab is relatively easy. However, we do not stock designer zipper bits. Your busted one will be replaced by what we have that fits/works. It will NOT have a fancy designer logo, it may not be the same shape or color. We do use YKK zipper fobs which are a quality product, but they’re “generic”. If the zipper slide breaks we can usually replace it (no, we don’t fix it, we replace it). The zipper slide is the chunky bit that pulls together or separates the zipper teeth. To do that we will have to open up a seam or three in your Precious Object. We will attempt to re-sew it as best we’re able, but since we don’t have the exact same sewing machines, thread, etc. the original manufacturer uses yes, you will almost certainly be able to discern it was at one time repaired if you look closely (at normal conversational distance probably not noticeable). Pleather has a distressing tendency to tear and/or stretch during such operations, this works best on real leather or fabric. Again, the zipper slide we use for repair will not be the exact same one the design house used, because they don’t sell their purse/whatever parts separately. We will use what works. We will try to find a bit that matches at least somewhat (for Coach, since they use YKK zippers, this might be very close indeed but other designers use stuff that’s uniquely shaped) but we can NOT stock an example of every single zipper slide ever created.

We. Do. Not. Replace. Zippers.

Why? Because we have to charge you at least $50 for the labor involved (our best zipper person could manage only one or two zipper replacements a day. Unfortunately, she suffers from a psychiatric disorder (unrelated to zipper repair, I assure you) and was hospitalized some months ago. We have not been able to replace her, as no one likes to replace zippers, not even genuinely crazy people.). Because we got tired of people bitching that their Precious Object did not look exactly like it originally did. Because too many people are too stupid to understand that even design houses like Coach will NOT replace a zipper because of this sort of unavoidable permanent signs of repair and incomprehension on the part of the idiots who buy these things and can’t understand entropy, damage, and lack of magic in the world - we can’t wave a wand, speak a faux-Latin word, and your zipper is restored to its youth.

In sum, no, a zipper replacement is NOT a “simple” repair. It is laborious, difficult, it sucks, and it’s a 50/50 chance that the results will be less than optimal. We got tired of telling people that, then being threatened with a lawsuit because there are stupid people who don’t want to hear the facts.

Sorry, pet peeve. ::: takes deep, calming breaths :::

Zipper repairs on shoes and boots? All of the above, but more so. We don’t have the special jigs that allow perfection for the original makers. Sometimes, due to the shape of the item, we can’t even get it on the machine and have to finish by hand. Also, the original maker got to put in the zippers at the optimum time in the construction process, often before other things like a sole was installed, or a lining. Since we don’t want to completely disassemble your item (and really, you don’t want us to do that either) yes, if you look inside afterward you will be able to see where we did the sewing. We do everything we can to make the outside look the same, and we’ll be careful to avoid lumps or ridges or anything that can chafe you on the inside, but yeah, we have to sew through the wall of the item.

Officially, they don’t do cleaning. However, many of their stores will do it for free using their cleaning and conditioning products while you wait. I’m sure some store managers think it is worth the loss of those products to promote goodwill and their service model.

According to their website, their purse repairs charge a shipping and handling fee, $20, but nothing for the actual repairs.

Thank you very much for the long, extremely thorough answer, Broomstick. You’ve given me a lot to think about. In particular, I had no idea zippers were so difficult to repair or replace. My GF does have a few, older Coach bags, but has wondered whether the quality has slipped in recent years.

I can see why workboots would have Kevlar, but I was wondering whether the lightness and stiffness of a carbon-fiber composite would aid in maintaining rigidity in a delicate shoe. Or, alternately, allow for different configurations that would otherwise have unacceptable stresses in weaker materials. I’m not a cobbler or a designer; it just seemed like those materials would allow for even more creativity.

Thanks again for your posts.

High-end clothing is about status. Many of the Italian fashion houses have their stuff made by subcontratcors (of ncertain quality), and a lot of the items marked “Made In Italy” are simply finished in Italy-they are actally made elsewhere.
According to a firend of mine (an old Italian tailor) the best quality shirts (mens) are actually made in Hong Kong.
As for bathing suits-once you reach a reasonable price level, anything above that is simply hype.

Their products are guaranteed for life. I used to buy purses that were basically disposable and I thought I was being so thrifty because I never spent more tha $20 on a purse. Last summer I worked an entire month of crazy hours and I splurged with half the overtime pay on a beautiful Coach bag. It broke in under a week and I was angry. However they earned a customer for life when I walked into the store to deal with it. Every person I talked to apologized and every person in the store came over during my 15 mins there to express astonishment. The manager quickly replaced it with the identical bag although we closely inspected the tab that had broken to ensure it wasn’t going to repeat itself.

Now that bag has been through 8 months of hell. I routinely overstuff it, sling it onto the floor of the car and use it constantly and it looks the same as it did the day I got it. My daughter bought a beautiful leather bag from Danier (about 1/10 the cost of the coach bag) and 8 months later although it’s still functional it’s showing it’s use. I fully expect to be using mine a decade from now but I doubt hers will last the year.

Coincidentally, we just got two bags into the shop that I think actually are authentic Louis Vitton.

Wow.

These are really nice bags. Heavy-duty leather as soft and supple as lightweight deerskin. Robust hardware. Absolutely perfect assembly.

Not entirely convinced they are worth the sky high price tag, but they are most certainly a very finely crafted bag.

I buy higher-end items whenever I find them in my size at Goodwill. They really are much better fitting and seem to be better made than department store brands.

Approximately 23 years ago, I bought a plain brown Coach leather bag - I think it was called a City Bag (and I think it was the smallest size of that line).
About 5 years ago, the leather trim around the bottom wore through in one spot, and you could see the two layers of the side and bottom leather through the hole. I sent it in for repairs. They replaced all the trim, all the brass (which was a little faded looking), and the strap.
Cost me $18 in shipping.
They said they couldn’t match the leather color exactly, because the dark brown had lightened a bit over the years, and offered me a new bag at half price instead of the repairs. I chose the repairs, because I actually like the “unevenly worn” leather color that it is now.
No, I don’t buy new purses often, why do you ask?
I have bought a second purse, though. Hand made by Roche Leather Company. I met the guy at a fancy craft show and fell in love with the red diamond leather - first purse I’ve seen in years that was solid leather all the way through, like my Coach.
They have a website, if you want to see them: rocheleather.com

Broomstick if I may ask have you ever worked on White’s boots and if so your opinion on them?