# Obscene wealth: World's richest 85 hold the same wealth as 3.5 billion poor. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 21, 2014, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscene-wealth-worlds-richest-85-hold-the-same-wealth-as-3-5-billion-poor/679362 "2014-01-21T13:42:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscene-wealth-worlds-richest-85-hold-the-same-wealth-as-3-5-billion-poor/679362/1 "2014-01-21T13:42:24Z")
This is being talked about a lot and I was surprised to not find a thread about it. > **[Obscene wealth: World’s 85 richest have same wealth as 3.5 billion poorest –...](https://www.rt.com/news/wealthy-rich-85-billion-879/)** > > The world’s 85 wealthiest people have as much money as the 3.5 billion poorest people on the planet – half the Earth’s population. That’s according to Oxfam’s latest report on the risks of the widening gap between the super-rich and the poor. I find this trend extremely disturbing and I feel completely helpless about it. The people with all the money hold the power and pull the strings. I know the world isn’t fair, but life is awfully tough for an awful lot of people and the imbalance is so stark. So, I’d like to talk about it. What can be done about this? Should anything be done about this? I think we should push hard for major tax reform, but how do we achieve that under these conditions? ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscene-wealth-worlds-richest-85-hold-the-same-wealth-as-3-5-billion-poor/679362/2 "2014-01-21T13:57:54Z")
3.5 billion, not million. Tax reform will do nothing when the rich are in a different country than the poor, unless you are proposing some international income redistribution scheme. Would more money help people in areas where there is nothing to buy? Serious question - are we looking exclusively at “wealth” rather than quality of life, and would giving that “wealth” to the poor improve their situation? How many of the wealthiest 85 people in the world actually have cash or tangible assets which would help the poor half of the world? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscene-wealth-worlds-richest-85-hold-the-same-wealth-as-3-5-billion-poor/679362/3 "2014-01-21T14:13:56Z")
I recall seeing this discussed on another forum. It was pointed out that this highlights an important flaw in the old slogan of “eat the rich”; once you divide up 85 people into 3.5 billion parts, there’s not much nutrition left. > [@DrFidelius](#): > > Tax reform will do nothing when the rich are in a different country than the poor, unless you are proposing some international income redistribution scheme. But they are in the same country with “the poor”; they don’t all live in Plutocratica, they live in nations that have a great many poor people. > [@DrFidelius](#): > > Would more money help people in areas where there is nothing to buy? Yes, because if there’s money available people will show up with things to sell. The economy is driven by \*consumption. \* ---
**Author:** ![sevenwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@sevenwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sevenwood)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscene-wealth-worlds-richest-85-hold-the-same-wealth-as-3-5-billion-poor/679362/4 "2014-01-21T15:45:32Z")
A capitalist and a socialist were walking down the road when they spotted a beautiful mansion in the distance. You could see that the mansion had multiple pools on the grounds, and the driveway had several spectacular cars parked in it. The capitalist immediately thought “Everybody should live like this”. The socialist immediately thought “Nobody should live like this”. It will be interesting to see whether this exchange will become “how do we improve the lives of those 3.5 billion poor people” or “how do we take away the money of those 85 rich people”. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscene-wealth-worlds-richest-85-hold-the-same-wealth-as-3-5-billion-poor/679362/5 "2014-01-21T15:49:34Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > But they are in the same country with “the poor”; they don’t all live in Plutocratica, they live in nations that have a great many poor people. I’d like to see a cite for that. For instance, how many Americans fall in the category of the 3.5B poorest individuals on earth? If I had to guess, I’d say ZERO. Ditto for Western Europe, Japan, Australia, NZ… But it wouldn’t surprise me too much if a few ultra-wealthy people live in desperately poor countries, and I suspect a few of them will be Chinese and Indians. So, it might be true that some are in the same countries with the poor, but the distribution is going to be skewed. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscene-wealth-worlds-richest-85-hold-the-same-wealth-as-3-5-billion-poor/679362/6 "2014-01-21T15:52:51Z")
> [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#): > > I find this trend extremely disturbing and I feel completely helpless about it. The people with all the money hold the power and pull the strings. Do you find the trend that there are a lot less abjectly poor people today as a percentage of the overall world population than at any time in the past as well? > [@](#): > > I know the world isn’t fair, but life is awfully tough for an awful lot of people and the imbalance is so stark. Is it tougher on them than it was, say, 100 years ago? How about 1000? What about 10,000? > [@](#): > > What can be done about this? Should anything be done about this? Well, you could take all of the rich peoples money away from them and give it to the poor…and then we could all go back to the good old days when this disturbing trend hadn’t happened yet. > [@](#): > > I think we should push hard for major tax reform, but how do we achieve that under these conditions? How would you push for major tax reform across the globe? Are you going to impose a one world government on everyone and THEN push for tax reform? ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscene-wealth-worlds-richest-85-hold-the-same-wealth-as-3-5-billion-poor/679362/7 "2014-01-21T15:57:31Z")
I see that my husband and I, solid middle class by US standards, are in the top .10% for income in the world (after taxes), and about the 6.5 millionth in the world. Woot! I feel better. [http://www.globalrichlist.com/](http://www.globalrichlist.com/) ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscene-wealth-worlds-richest-85-hold-the-same-wealth-as-3-5-billion-poor/679362/8 "2014-01-21T16:06:30Z")
Anyone with more money than me has too much, and I want some of it. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscene-wealth-worlds-richest-85-hold-the-same-wealth-as-3-5-billion-poor/679362/9 "2014-01-21T16:20:45Z")
> [@Antinor01](#): > > I see that my husband and I, solid middle class by US standards, are in the top .10% for income in the world (after taxes), and about the 6.5 millionth in the world. Woot! I feel better. > > [http://www.globalrichlist.com/](http://www.globalrichlist.com/) Hmm, individually we’re each in about the top .40% range. I combined our incomes last time when I shouldn’t have. ---
**Author:** ![sevenwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@sevenwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sevenwood)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscene-wealth-worlds-richest-85-hold-the-same-wealth-as-3-5-billion-poor/679362/10 "2014-01-21T16:27:54Z")
I just used that site, and found that if you live in the USA and are working for minimum wage (currently $7.25/hr) then you’re in the top 8.7% in the world for income. To my fellow USA residents: don’t expect any of that worldwide redistributed wealth anytime soon. To get to the bottom half worldwide, you’d have to be living on an income of $1,300/year in the USA. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscene-wealth-worlds-richest-85-hold-the-same-wealth-as-3-5-billion-poor/679362/11 "2014-01-21T16:33:57Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > 3.5 billion, not million. Fixed this. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscene-wealth-worlds-richest-85-hold-the-same-wealth-as-3-5-billion-poor/679362/12 "2014-01-21T16:50:29Z")
> [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#): > > This is being talked about a lot and I was surprised to not find a thread about it. > > [http://rt.com/news/wealthy-rich-85-billion-879/](http://rt.com/news/wealthy-rich-85-billion-879/) > > I find this trend extremely disturbing and I feel completely helpless about it. The people with all the money hold the power and pull the strings. > > I know the world isn’t fair, but life is awfully tough for an awful lot of people and the imbalance is so stark. > > So, I’d like to talk about it. > > What can be done about this? Should anything be done about this? > > I think we should push hard for major tax reform, but how do we achieve that under these conditions? If you take out the people with a negative net worth, I wonder what the figure would be? ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscene-wealth-worlds-richest-85-hold-the-same-wealth-as-3-5-billion-poor/679362/13 "2014-01-21T17:01:28Z")
Are we talking truly about people having the wealth as their own disposable income, or do they own some company or have it invested in some real enterprise? A company’s wealth is tied up in its business. Such wealth is different then having money invested that you can spend any time you like to buy Picasso paintings as fuel for your private jet plane. > [@Antinor01](#): > > I see that my husband and I, solid middle class by US standards, are in the top .10% for income in the world (after taxes), and about the 6.5 millionth in the world. Woot! I feel better. > Hmm, individually we’re each in about the top .40% range… That’s a really good point. All this pointing at the top .000001 percent should not make us forget that the rest of the world points to us as the top 5 percent of the world. All Dopers are filthy rich. Yes, you too, (not **Antinor** especially, anyone reading this). ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscene-wealth-worlds-richest-85-hold-the-same-wealth-as-3-5-billion-poor/679362/14 "2014-01-21T17:11:08Z")
> [@sevenwood](#): > > A capitalist and a socialist were walking down the road when they spotted a beautiful mansion in the distance. You could see that the mansion had multiple pools on the grounds, and the driveway had several spectacular cars parked in it. > > The capitalist immediately thought “Everybody should live like this”. > > The socialist immediately thought “Nobody should live like this”. > > It will be interesting to see whether this exchange will become “how do we improve the lives of those 3.5 billion poor people” or “how do we take away the money of those 85 rich people”. Generally these days, though, the capitalist immediately thinks “_I_ should live like this; if I can’ bribe someone to lower my taxes and lay off a few of my minimum wage workers, I’ll be able to afford it for a summer home.” ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscene-wealth-worlds-richest-85-hold-the-same-wealth-as-3-5-billion-poor/679362/15 "2014-01-21T17:12:06Z")
> [@](#): > > Are we talking truly about people having the wealth as their own disposable income, or do they own some company or have it invested in some real enterprise? > > A company’s wealth is tied up in its business. Such wealth is different then having money invested that you can spend any time you like to buy Picasso paintings as fuel for your private jet plane. We’re talking about people, not companies. Bill Gates could, in fact, sell off all of his Microsoft stock to buy Picassos and similar luxuries. The offices in Richmond would still be full of servers and computers and employees churning out the next version of Windows, but that makes no difference at all to Bill Gates personally. ---
**Author:** ![harmonicamoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@harmonicamoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/harmonicamoon)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscene-wealth-worlds-richest-85-hold-the-same-wealth-as-3-5-billion-poor/679362/16 "2014-01-21T19:06:56Z")
I would like to believe that all these rich folk are currently giving a fair percentage of their wealth to causes to make the world a better place. I have no data on which to base this. But, I feel good believing it. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscene-wealth-worlds-richest-85-hold-the-same-wealth-as-3-5-billion-poor/679362/17 "2014-01-21T19:09:16Z")
> [@sevenwood](#): > > A capitalist and a socialist were walking down the road when they spotted a beautiful mansion in the distance. You could see that the mansion had multiple pools on the grounds, and the driveway had several spectacular cars parked in it. > > The capitalist immediately thought “Everybody should live like this”. > > The socialist immediately thought “Nobody should live like this”. You have a rather cartoonish view of capitalists and socialists. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscene-wealth-worlds-richest-85-hold-the-same-wealth-as-3-5-billion-poor/679362/18 "2014-01-21T19:14:13Z")
> [@harmonicamoon](#): > > I would like to believe that all these rich folk are currently giving a fair percentage of their wealth to causes to make the world a better place. I have no data on which to base this. But, I feel good believing it. I agree with you. And there are numbers to back it up. The 116 members of the Giving Pledge are billionaires who have pledged to donate half of their wealth to charitable causes. > **[Home - The Giving Pledge](https://givingpledge.org/)** > > A Commitment to Philanthropy: The Giving Pledge is a promise by the world's wealthiest individuals and families to dedicate the majority of their wealth to charitable causes. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscene-wealth-worlds-richest-85-hold-the-same-wealth-as-3-5-billion-poor/679362/19 "2014-01-21T19:31:23Z")
No cite, but I believe Gates has given away billions and plans on giving away more. IIRC, his own kids are only set to inherit a modest sum (a couple million, again IIRC) with the bulk of the money being donated or used for other such purposes. ---
**Author:** ![PlaceboTarget](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/placebotarget/32/1073_2.png) [@PlaceboTarget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlaceboTarget)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscene-wealth-worlds-richest-85-hold-the-same-wealth-as-3-5-billion-poor/679362/20 "2014-01-21T19:37:58Z")
> [@](#): > > Obscene wealth: World’s richest 85 hold the same wealth as 3.5 billion poor. What’s obscene about it? But for the 85, the 3.5 billion would have no jobs, would they? As for the hopeless jobless, where there’s a will there’s a [way](http://art-bin.com/art/omodest.html). > [@XT](#): > > No cite, but I believe Gates has given away billions and plans on giving away more. IIRC, his own kids are only set to inherit a modest sum (a couple million, again IIRC) with the bulk of the money being donated or used for other such purposes. What a pity he makes a role model for anyone but his peers (i.e. the most wealthy). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscene-wealth-worlds-richest-85-hold-the-same-wealth-as-3-5-billion-poor/679362.md?page=2)