# Obscure characters in DC and Marvel Universes - Origins and endings questions **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 6, 2004, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscure-characters-in-dc-and-marvel-universes-origins-and-endings-questions/248911 "2004-06-06T04:20:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscure-characters-in-dc-and-marvel-universes-origins-and-endings-questions/248911/41 "2004-06-09T07:23:09Z")
> [@Chairman Pow](#): > > He can’t have parents because he’s both the beginning and the end. Or, if you want to get technical, John’s the End and Alphie’s the beginning. But since Alphie’s chaos and John’s order, inyo/yin yang, &c. I figured as such, but for some reason the geek in me just keeps screaming that this is one big causality loop, like Kirk’s glasses in _Star Trek IV._ > [@Chairman Pow](#): > > What I liked about the series the best though was that people kept writing in to praise how “realistic” it was, perhaps ignoring the ninja anti-gravity tricks in light of there being no thought balloons or sound effects. John and the Russian Chick were sent into a video game ferchrisssakes! I never thought it was realistic, but it was fun, in a head-bending ninja-mojo sort of way. Larry Hama _really_ loves his ninja comics; in addition to **Nth Man,** he also did **Wolfpack** (inner-city kids learn ninjitsu to stay off the streets and defend their neighborhood), as well as all the ninjamania in **G.I. Joe.** ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscure-characters-in-dc-and-marvel-universes-origins-and-endings-questions/248911/42 "2004-06-09T12:07:27Z")
> [@xvxdarkknightxvx](#): > > Well _that_ was sure descent of you! I definitely would have same something else. Once again, but not in Engrish, please? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscure-characters-in-dc-and-marvel-universes-origins-and-endings-questions/248911/43 "2004-06-09T12:35:45Z")
> [@Master Wang-Ka](#): > > Word has it that Barry Allen may be coming back, although that could just be fan rumor. > > And nobody mentioned Gwen Stacy? Still dead, at last report, although there was a clone running around, somewhere. I’ve been waiting for Barry to come back for almost 20 years now. I wish they _would_ bring him back. I think it’s idle fan speculation because of every other reversal to the Silver Age that’s going on now. Gwen Stacy didn’t occur to me, but there ya go… ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscure-characters-in-dc-and-marvel-universes-origins-and-endings-questions/248911/44 "2004-06-09T14:03:02Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > I’ve been waiting for Barry to come back for almost 20 years now. I wish they _would_ bring him back. I think it’s idle fan speculation because of every other reversal to the Silver Age that’s going on now. > > Gwen Stacy didn’t occur to me, but there ya go… There’s at least three Gwen-Clones running around (one of whom is married to a Miles Warren clone (yuk) ) so I don’t think she counts. I don’t blame Conway for bringing in the first Gwen clone–he was getting death threats in the mail from disgruntled fans\*. I’ve heard (I’ve never seen Conway confirm or deny this specific incident) that allegedly someone took a picture of his kids in the schoolyard or something and mailed it to Conway with a note that said something to the effect of “It’d be a shame if someone pushed _them_ off a bridge, wouldn’t it?” and Conway (more or less) said “F\*ck it. It’s a funny-book. It ain’t worth this crap.” (I agree) and he intro’d the first Gwen Clone. _Nothing_ forgives the Clone saga though. Fenris \*Marvel fans were fucking nuts at this time. When Howard the Duck first appeared in **Adventures in Fear** , he was quickly killed (pushed off a bridge over a void). Marvel got huge hate-mail, including someone who sent them dead ducks in the mail(!!!) with notes saying stuff like “yOU MurDEreD mE!” Early '70s Marvel fans were deranged. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscure-characters-in-dc-and-marvel-universes-origins-and-endings-questions/248911/45 "2004-06-09T14:34:04Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > There’s at least three Gwen-Clones running around (one of whom is married to a Miles Warren clone (yuk) ) so I don’t think she counts. > > I don’t blame Conway for bringing in the first Gwen clone–he was getting death threats in the mail from disgruntled fans\*. I’ve heard (I’ve never seen Conway confirm or deny this specific incident) that allegedly someone took a picture of his kids in the schoolyard or something and mailed it to Conway with a note that said something to the effect of “It’d be a shame if someone pushed _them_ off a bridge, wouldn’t it?” and Conway (more or less) said “F\*ck it. It’s a funny-book. It ain’t worth this crap.” (I agree) and he intro’d the first Gwen Clone. _Nothing_ forgives the Clone saga though. > > Fenris > > \*Marvel fans were fucking nuts at this time. When Howard the Duck first appeared in **Adventures in Fear** , he was quickly killed (pushed off a bridge over a void). Marvel got huge hate-mail, including someone who sent them dead ducks in the mail(!!!) with notes saying stuff like “yOU MurDEreD mE!” Early '70s Marvel fans were deranged. More data on Gwen Clones, please? BTW— **all** fans are a little off-kilter. Would there be a whole factory devoted to making plastic pointed ears if they weren’t? ---
**Author:** ![xvxdarkknightxvx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/34f0e0/32.png) [@xvxdarkknightxvx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xvxdarkknightxvx)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscure-characters-in-dc-and-marvel-universes-origins-and-endings-questions/248911/46 "2004-06-09T14:49:54Z")
> [@Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor](#): > > Once again, but not in Engrish, please? 😕 Wow, that’s embarrassing, but in my defense, it was 6:00 in the morning. I meant to say “Well, that sure was decent of you! I definitely would have said something else.” Don’t mind me, though. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Kaitlyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/73ab20/32.png) [@Kaitlyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaitlyn)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscure-characters-in-dc-and-marvel-universes-origins-and-endings-questions/248911/47 "2004-06-09T22:09:27Z")
My “Only Bucky and Uncle Ben stay dead” comment was meant to be tongue in cheek; I’m aware that other characters stay dead. The Legion and the Titans tend to let their dead stay dead. If I were in charge of comic book characters, I would make it a rule that dead characters should stay dead unless bringing them back was part of the storyline that killed them. Thus, Ben coming back in the recent Fantasic Four storyline is ok, as it was planned from the very beginning, and he wasn’t really dead. Resurrecting Jean Grey isn’t. Likewise, I sincerely hope that they don’t bring Barry back. Like with Jean, to do so would lessen the sacrifice he made to save the universe. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscure-characters-in-dc-and-marvel-universes-origins-and-endings-questions/248911/48 "2004-06-10T01:31:56Z")
Characters Who Stayed Dead Boston Brand 😃 Re Nth Man, The Ninja It was definitely 16 issues. I loved the ending. I loved the mixture of detailed everyday reality with ninjas and a super psychic. ---
**Author:** ![Chairman\_Pow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/838e76/32.png) [@Chairman\_Pow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chairman_Pow)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscure-characters-in-dc-and-marvel-universes-origins-and-endings-questions/248911/49 "2004-06-10T02:22:48Z")
Oh yeah, let’s not forget The Punisher’s family. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscure-characters-in-dc-and-marvel-universes-origins-and-endings-questions/248911/50 "2004-06-10T03:23:44Z")
Dammit, I can’t find a thing about it online, but I distinctly remember a Marvel Grey Man who had something to do with the X-Men. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscure-characters-in-dc-and-marvel-universes-origins-and-endings-questions/248911/51 "2004-06-10T14:42:55Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Dammit, I can’t find a thing about it online, but I distinctly remember a Marvel Grey Man who had something to do with the X-Men. Might be Magneto. When he was a member of the Hellfire Club, he tried to consolidate his influence by seizing two titles, Black King and White King, simultaneously, functioning as a “Grey King.” Or, maybe it was Dr. Spectrum when his jewel broke and all the color was leached out of him. ---
**Author:** ![Chairman\_Pow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/838e76/32.png) [@Chairman\_Pow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chairman_Pow)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscure-characters-in-dc-and-marvel-universes-origins-and-endings-questions/248911/52 "2004-06-10T16:11:59Z")
Grey Gargoyle? He was primarily an Iron Man or Thor villain IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscure-characters-in-dc-and-marvel-universes-origins-and-endings-questions/248911/53 "2004-06-10T17:08:05Z")
> [@Krokodil](#): > > A planet can’t “dwarf galaxies”; celestial bodies over a certain mass collapse in on themselves. It is possible they weren’t speaking literally (the point about comic book universe science aside). It is just as likely that the element they are discussing as dwarfing entire galaxies, could be from some super Dyson’s sphere in which the entire surface area and thus population of the “planet”, dwarfs the population/surface area of all the planets of “galaxies.” ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscure-characters-in-dc-and-marvel-universes-origins-and-endings-questions/248911/54 "2004-06-10T18:57:44Z")
> [@Epimetheus](#): > > It is possible they weren’t speaking literally (the point about comic book universe science aside). It is just as likely that the element they are discussing as dwarfing entire galaxies, could be from some super Dyson’s sphere in which the entire surface area and thus population of the “planet”, dwarfs the population/surface area of all the planets of “galaxies.” Or, comic book physics being what it is, if there’s a Microverse, there’s probably a Macroverse. But, the current line is that the Stranger was lying about Eternus and was intended to be the fourth head of the Living Tribunal. He always reminded me of the guy who played Darren Stevens’ boss on _Bewitched_ (and who, come to think of it, also played J. Jonah Jameson on that short-lived _Spider-Man_ TV show in the 70s). ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscure-characters-in-dc-and-marvel-universes-origins-and-endings-questions/248911/55 "2004-06-10T19:42:52Z")
**Epimetheus** I have a comic in which Superman discovers that Warworld is larger than a dwarf star. IIRC Warworld is not a Dyson sphere. It’s just really big. ---
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscure-characters-in-dc-and-marvel-universes-origins-and-endings-questions/248911/56 "2004-06-10T19:46:27Z")
Hmm, but a dwarf star is only slightly bigger in volume than Earth. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscure-characters-in-dc-and-marvel-universes-origins-and-endings-questions/248911.md?page=2)