# Obscure origins of popular phrases **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 11, 2006, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscure-origins-of-popular-phrases/352205 "2006-04-11T07:43:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![FlyingRamenMonster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@FlyingRamenMonster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlyingRamenMonster)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscure-origins-of-popular-phrases/352205/1 "2006-04-11T07:43:09Z")
Thanks to a steady potato diet, the 19th Century Irish often suffered from constipation. During this time many “spirit-doctors” could be found across the country, professing to be able to cure the condition by using spirit energy to draw out waste matter from their patients’ digestive tracts. However, they were all quacks and this is where the phrase “to pull shit out of one’s ass” comes from. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscure-origins-of-popular-phrases/352205/2 "2006-04-11T11:04:26Z")
> [@FlyingRamenMonster](#): > > However, they were all quacks and this is where the phrase “to pull shit out of one’s ass” comes from. > > 🙂 Damn. I was sure it was on usenet when people would post stuff like that. Shows what I know. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Clam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3bc359/32.png) [@Happy\_Clam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Clam)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscure-origins-of-popular-phrases/352205/3 "2006-04-11T11:42:06Z")
1. Few realise that in the earlier days of the English parliament, MPs would go armed into the debating chamber. This led to a number of violent clashes between debaters, sometimes even resulting in serious injury. To prevent such assaults from occuring during debates, two lines were drawn along the floor of the chamber, each exactly THREE sword’s lengths away from each other, and which MPs were forbidden to cross while the debate was in session. If any MP looked like crossing the line and attacking his opponent, the Speaker would tell him to “toe the line”, meaning keep his toes behind the line, where he could not harm others. This is the origin of the expression “to toe the line.”, meaning to accords with rules and expectations. 2. In ancient Sri Lanka, an albino elephant was considered a divine animal, sacred to various gods. It therefore had to be fed, washed, groomed etc, and could not be assigned to work carrying or lifting. Any albino elephant born was also the property of the king. Eventually, an unusually cunning king got tired of paying for otherwise usless (if highly sacred) pachyderms cluttering up his palace. He therefore began the practice of “donating” albino elephants to members of his nobility he disliked. The poor nobleman would either be ruined by the enormous cost of feeding and stabling a nonproductive elephant, or disgraced by failing to properly care for a sacred beast. This begat the term “white elephant” meaning a useless and unwanted thing, often a gift. 3. When fighting on-board ships in the days of breech-loading cannons, sailors would store cannonballs in large brass triangles (a flattened piece of metal with indentations for the cannonballs to rest in, on which sailors would stack a pyramid of cannonballs) placed on the deck, known as “brass monkeys”. The cannonballs, were, of course, made of iron, which, of course, has somewhat different physical properties to brass- one of which is the fact that at low temperatures, it contracts rather less than brass. As a consequence, when sailing in low temperatures, the “brass monkey” would contract, disturbing the cannonballs stacked atop it and causing them to roll about the deck. Thus we get the phrase “cold enough to freeze the balls of a brass monkey”, meaning extreme low temperatures. _Only one of these stories is true._ ---
**Author:** ![Can\_Handle\_the\_Truth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Can\_Handle\_the\_Truth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Can_Handle_the_Truth)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscure-origins-of-popular-phrases/352205/4 "2006-04-11T13:22:16Z")
> [@Happy Clam](#): > > Only one of these stories is true. #2 is true. “Son of a bitch” - see 1 Samuel 20:30 ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Clam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3bc359/32.png) [@Happy\_Clam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Clam)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscure-origins-of-popular-phrases/352205/5 "2006-04-11T14:04:24Z")
_BUZZZZ_ Wrong! Try again! ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscure-origins-of-popular-phrases/352205/6 "2006-04-11T14:14:44Z")
> [@Happy Clam](#): > > 1. Few realise that in the earlier days of the English parliament, MPs would go armed into the debating chamber. This led to a number of violent clashes between debaters, sometimes even resulting in serious injury. To prevent such assaults from occuring during debates, two lines were drawn along the floor of the chamber, each exactly THREE sword’s lengths away from each other, and which MPs were forbidden to cross while the debate was in session. If any MP looked like crossing the line and attacking his opponent, the Speaker would tell him to “toe the line”, meaning keep his toes behind the line, where he could not harm others. This is the origin of the expression “to toe the line.”, meaning to accords with rules and expectations. I thought this was going to somehow be the origin of "MP3"s. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscure-origins-of-popular-phrases/352205/7 "2006-04-11T14:31:43Z")
The brass monkey is real. I can’t vouch for the expression, but there really is a brass monkey that holds cannonballs. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscure-origins-of-popular-phrases/352205/8 "2006-04-11T14:46:43Z")
> [@Happy Clam](#): > > Only one of these stories is true. Actually, they’re all false, though #2 comes closest (it originates in Thailand/Siam or Burma, not Sri Lanka/Ceylon). 1. Toe the line: > [@](#): > > Toe the line is actually the survivor of a set of phrases that were common in the nineteenth century; others were toe the mark, toe the scratch, toe the crack, or toe the trig. In every case, the image was that of men lining up with the tips of their toes touching some line. ([cite](http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-toe2.htm) , which specifically mentions your story as false) 1. White Elephant – From the OED: > [@](#): > > 1607 TOPSELL Four-f. Beasts 208 An Indian, who had brought vp from a Foale a white Elephant. 1663 H. C[OGAN] tr. Pinto’s Travels xlviii. 274 The white elephant whereon he [the King of Siam] was mounted. 1841 Penny Cycl. XXI. 451/2 White elephants…are kept in the stables of the king [of Siam], and treated with a kind of veneration. 1851 G. E. JEWSBURY Let. 23 July (1892) 414 His services are like so many white elephants, of which nobody can make use, and yet that drain one’s gratitude, if indeed one does not feel bankrupt. There is an urban legend that the phrase originates with P.T. Barnum, but the dates are wrong. Barnum’s “White Elephant” story occurred in [1871](http://www.iridescent-publishing.com/rtm/ch1p5.htm) (or possibly later), whereas the phrase dates from 20 years earlier (though the Barnum incident may have popularized it). 1. Brass Monkey > [@](#): > > It has often been claimed that the “brass monkey” was a holder or storage rack in which cannon balls (or shot) were stacked on a ship. Supposedly when the “monkey” with its stack of cannon ball became cold, the contraction of iron cannon balls led to the balls falling through or off of the “monkey.” This explanation appears to be a legend of the sea without historical justification. [cite](http://www.yaelf.com/questions.shtml) (The origin of the phrase is clearly literal). ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Clam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3bc359/32.png) [@Happy\_Clam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Clam)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscure-origins-of-popular-phrases/352205/9 "2006-04-11T14:49:59Z")
Well blow me down. I’d assumed that the source for #1 was accurate (The Origins of the Phrases we use every day, by Albert Jacks), but apparently not. Thank you for the correction, **RealityChuck**. Anyone know the origin of the phrase “Up the creek without a paddle?” ---
**Author:** ![FlyingRamenMonster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@FlyingRamenMonster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlyingRamenMonster)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscure-origins-of-popular-phrases/352205/10 "2006-04-11T15:11:21Z")
Rawr. Y’all aren’t getting it! D: Oh well, doesn’t matter. I was being excessively vague anyway. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Clam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3bc359/32.png) [@Happy\_Clam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Clam)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscure-origins-of-popular-phrases/352205/11 "2006-04-11T15:14:24Z")
What, we were supposed to make up meaning so popular phrases? That’s what I did anyway [SIZE=1]Even if if was by accident.[/SIZE=1] ---
**Author:** ![dmatsch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3be4f8/32.png) [@dmatsch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dmatsch)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscure-origins-of-popular-phrases/352205/12 "2006-04-11T15:29:57Z")
The term “that doesn’t cut the mustard” is actually an incorrect phrase for someone’s excuse that’s not good enough to get them out of the task at hand. The term is actually “cut the muster” referring to the American Revolutionary War days when able-bodied men were called on to fight for their country. They would assemble in groups called a “muster”. Any lame excuse used by conscripts would not allow them to “cut the muster” and go back home. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscure-origins-of-popular-phrases/352205/13 "2006-04-11T15:37:07Z")
Nice story, but the phrase [“cut the mustard”](http://www.alt-usage-english.org/excerpts/fxcutthe.html) dates from 1902 (originally used by O. Henry). As it says [here](http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-cut1.htm), “The clinching argument for [cut the muster] not being the source is that nobody has found the supposedly original phrase ‘cut the muster’ anywhere.” Does anyone ever bother to look up these origins before posting them? Typing “cut the mustard” in Google gave me that cite; took me 10 seconds to check. Now, if we’re making up origins, that’s fine, but isn’t it a good idea to double check if we’re posting something as truth? ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscure-origins-of-popular-phrases/352205/14 "2006-04-11T15:45:30Z")
> [@Happy Clam](#): > > Anyone know the origin of the phrase “Up the creek without a paddle?” It seems to originate from the phrase "[Up shit creek,"](http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=shit) which dates from 1937. “Up the Creek” comes from 1941, and I’m guessing the “without a paddle” was added later. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscure-origins-of-popular-phrases/352205/15 "2006-04-11T15:50:20Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Now, if we’re making up origins, that’s fine, but isn’t it a good idea to double check if we’re posting something as truth? Given the absurd story and the smilie in the OP, I think that’s exactly what he intended: to have people make up stupid yet plausible etymologies. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscure-origins-of-popular-phrases/352205/16 "2006-04-11T16:39:05Z")
The term “scab” is used as a term for workers that cross a picket line in a strike but few people know where it comes from. During a 1919 strike in a Pittsburgh steel mill, the whole town was suffering because of a lengthy plant shut-down. The union refused to budge. A man by the name of Duke “Buddy” Jones was a retired steel worker from the old days when they didn’t have unions and he claimed that men were men and people were tough back them. He rounded up some of his former coworkers that were still alive and reopen the plant. They showed up “for work” the next day and faced the picket line. The strikers grew angry and some strikers drew weapons. Buddy and his men walked straight through the picket line and the strikers went insane and started cutting them with razor blades and stabbing them with knives. Buddy and his men really were tough and they weren’t fazed in the least and they went in to reopen that plant. The next day the same thing happened but the wounds didn’t deter them. People on the street that saw them with lacerations and puncture wounds all over their bodies didn’t have any choice but to call them “scabs” but, unlike today, it was a term of endearment and heroism. ---
**Author:** ![Who\_me\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/958977/32.png) [@Who\_me\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Who_me_1)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscure-origins-of-popular-phrases/352205/17 "2006-04-11T17:12:03Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Now, if we’re making up origins, that’s fine, but isn’t it a good idea to double check if we’re posting something as truth? Uhhh… Whoosh? ---
**Author:** ![dmatsch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3be4f8/32.png) [@dmatsch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dmatsch)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscure-origins-of-popular-phrases/352205/18 "2006-04-11T17:20:04Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > Given the absurd story and the smilie in the OP, I think that’s exactly what he intended: to have people make up stupid yet plausible etymologies. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscure-origins-of-popular-phrases/352205/19 "2006-04-11T17:26:30Z")
> [@Happy Clam](#): > > _BUZZZZ_ Wrong! Try again! It’s Thailand, they’re not albino, but pale skinned, iirc. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscure-origins-of-popular-phrases/352205/20 "2006-04-11T17:47:26Z")
> [@FlyingRamenMonster](#): > > “to pull shit out of one’s ass” A good story — well, a good story for connaisseurs of Hibernian scatology anyway — but I doubt its truthiness. What is pulled out of someone’s ass is invariably _information_ — canonically statistical or numerical in nature, eg: “I’m just pulling these numbers out of my ass.” It’s a spicy way of saying you’re just making them up; it’s got nothing to do with shit _qua_ shit. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscure-origins-of-popular-phrases/352205.md?page=2)