# Obscure rule violations that ought to be called more often **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 19, 2016, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscure-rule-violations-that-ought-to-be-called-more-often/752619 "2016-04-19T03:15:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscure-rule-violations-that-ought-to-be-called-more-often/752619/1 "2016-04-19T03:15:13Z")
There are two rule violations in the NFL that often seemingly go uncalled. The first is that oftentimes, on a touchdown play (i.e., punt return for a TD,), players from the scoring team’s sidelines will step out on to the field in celebration before the ballcarrier has crossed the goal line. Technically, that’s too many men on the field. The second is that on Hail Mary plays, often in the jostle and crowd of players in the end zone trying to deflect or catch the ball, there will be illegal contact or pass interference that goes uncalled. Refs for some reason seem to treat the rules much more loosely in Hail Mary situations than on “normal passing plays.” Any other obscure rule violations - in any sport - that ought to be called more often? ---
**Author:** ![Sunshine\_and\_Smiles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Sunshine\_and\_Smiles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunshine_and_Smiles)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscure-rule-violations-that-ought-to-be-called-more-often/752619/2 "2016-04-19T03:50:47Z")
[Palming/Carrying](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrying_(basketball)) the ball in basketball is rarely called - it has to be very, almost ridiculously blatant - but it is common. ---
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscure-rule-violations-that-ought-to-be-called-more-often/752619/3 "2016-04-19T04:02:20Z")
Coaches in soccer stepping out of the coaches box. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscure-rule-violations-that-ought-to-be-called-more-often/752619/4 "2016-04-19T16:30:34Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > There are two rule violations in the NFL that often seemingly go uncalled. The first is that oftentimes, on a touchdown play (i.e., punt return for a TD,), players from the scoring team’s sidelines will step out on to the field in celebration before the ballcarrier has crossed the goal line. Technically, that’s too many men on the field. If it’s totally unrelated to the action (ie, not potentially interfering with a runner or defensive back) and not blatantly unsportsmanlike, then calling it would be ridiculous. No one wants to see TDs called back for something like that. > [@](#): > > The second is that on Hail Mary plays, often in the jostle and crowd of players in the end zone trying to deflect or catch the ball, there will be illegal contact or pass interference that goes uncalled. Refs for some reason seem to treat the rules much more loosely in Hail Mary situations than on “normal passing plays.” And they should. I mean, its unfortunate that you cfan get away wioth a lot more DPI (and OPI!) on Hail Mary plays, but calling DPI there means the team gets to move to the 1 yard line and try again. Is that really how you want every single one score game to come down to? As it is, both teams are committing offsetting penalties as long as they aren’t too egregious, and that’s probably the best possible outcome in this situation. I do not want either of these to be called more often. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscure-rule-violations-that-ought-to-be-called-more-often/752619/5 "2016-04-19T17:23:59Z")
> [@JSexton](#): > > …I do not want either of these to be called more often. Agreed. In football, a penalty could conceivably be called on almost every play. I think the NFL does a good job in calling blatant penalties while letting minor infractions go. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscure-rule-violations-that-ought-to-be-called-more-often/752619/6 "2016-04-19T17:41:46Z")
There is a rule in the MLB book that requires the pitcher to throw a pitch within 12 seconds if the bases are unoccupied or else the umpire will call a ball. You rarely see this delay of game called, usually only if the pitcher takes 30+ seconds. The last time I actually saw a ball called for pitcher delay was on Rafael Betancourt at least 7 or 8 years ago. Steven Trachsel was also notorious for taking forever between pitches, but I don’t know that he ever got called for it. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscure-rule-violations-that-ought-to-be-called-more-often/752619/7 "2016-04-19T17:42:01Z")
> [@russian\_heel](#): > > Coaches in soccer stepping out of the coaches box. Base coaches in baseball, too, though I’m honestly not sure that there’s any rule requiring them to stay in their boxes as long as they don’t interfere with any live play. I’m actually really happy that MLB has decided to start ruling runners safe on the ‘neighborhood’ play. That used to drive me crazy. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscure-rule-violations-that-ought-to-be-called-more-often/752619/8 "2016-04-20T18:58:03Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > There is a rule in the MLB book that requires the pitcher to throw a pitch within 12 seconds if the bases are unoccupied or else the umpire will call a ball. You rarely see this delay of game called, usually only if the pitcher takes 30+ seconds. The last time I actually saw a ball called for pitcher delay was on Rafael Betancourt at least 7 or 8 years ago. Steven Trachsel was also notorious for taking forever between pitches, but I don’t know that he ever got called for it. The 12 seconds only start after the pitcher has the ball and the batter is ready in the batter’s box. The actual average time between pitches (not the time referred to in the 12 second rule) for the same batter and ignoring things like fouls and pickoffs has been: 2010: 17.35 2011: 17.32 2012: 17.95 2013: 18.10 2014: 18.29 seconds. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if batters take at least 6 seconds to be “ready”. ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscure-rule-violations-that-ought-to-be-called-more-often/752619/9 "2016-04-20T19:34:02Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > The 12 seconds only start after the pitcher has the ball and the batter is ready in the batter’s box. The actual average time between pitches (not the time referred to in the 12 second rule) for the same batter and ignoring things like fouls and pickoffs has been: > > 2010: 17.35 > 2011: 17.32 > 2012: 17.95 > 2013: 18.10 > 2014: 18.29 > > seconds. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if batters take at least 6 seconds to be “ready”. Double-A and Triple-A started using pitch clocks last year. I saw games at both those levels in person last season, along with a few major league games and several at the short-season level, and it was noticeable how much more quickly the AA and AAA games _seemed_ to move along. Excellent addition, in my opinion. Not sure how many second were on the clock or exactly when it began ticking. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscure-rule-violations-that-ought-to-be-called-more-often/752619/10 "2016-04-20T19:36:01Z")
> [@](#): > > Section XIII—Traveling > > b. A player who receives the ball while he is progressing or **upon completion of a dribble, may take two steps in coming to a stop, passing or shooting the ball.** A player who receives the ball while he is progressing must release the ball to start his dribble before his second step. Don’t know if it’s obscure but it’s almost never enforced. Ditto 12 second rule in baseball along with 504(b) which governs the batter staying in the batter’s box. As for the coach’s box rule, there are exceptions during play but the reason it is never enforced is because the opposing manager has to complain first. > [@](#): > > 5.03 > Base Coaches > (a) The team at bat shall station two base coaches on the field dur- > ing its time at bat, one near first base and one near third base. > (b)Base coaches shall be limited to two in number and shall (1) be > in team uniform, and (2) remain within the coach’s box at all > times. > > PENALTY > : The offending base coach shall be removed from the game, and shall leave the playing field. > Rule 5.03 Comment (Rule 4.05 Comment) > : It has been common practice for many years for some coaches to put one foot > outside the coach’s box or stand astride or otherwise be slightly outside the coaching box lines. Until a batted ball passes a coach, a coach is not permitted to position himself closer to home plate than the coach’s box nor closer to fair territory than the coach’s box. **Otherwise, a coach shall not be considered out of the box unless the opposing manager complains,** in which case the umpire shall strictly enforce the rule and require all coaches (on both teams) to remain in the coach’s box at all times. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscure-rule-violations-that-ought-to-be-called-more-often/752619/11 "2016-04-26T10:00:44Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > The second is that on Hail Mary plays, often in the jostle and crowd of players in the end zone trying to deflect or catch the ball, there will be illegal contact or pass interference that goes uncalled. Refs for some reason seem to treat the rules much more loosely in Hail Mary situations than on “normal passing plays.” I think this one is a little overblown. Hail Mary’s aren’t that common, and there isn’t pass interference on nearly as many plays as people think. Defensive players make contact, but in most cases its when going for the ball which is typically considered incidental. Offensive players tend to be more guilty here while establishing position or preventing someone from jumping. I think a few far more common and inconsistently enforced penalties in football are illegal hands to the face, which happens almost every snap on the line, and illegal contact with the receiver after 5 yards, which is super common, and probably the most common is the pick play with receivers blocking down field. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscure-rule-violations-that-ought-to-be-called-more-often/752619/12 "2016-04-26T11:52:28Z")
couple of things Golf and Tennis - enforce the time limits, strictly. Countdown clock on show and if you run out of time you lose the point or are penalised a stroke. For golf you’d have to have the official applying some discretion regarding when the time starts (the greens up ahead might be crowded etc) Football - Give penalties for the wrestling and holding in the box on corners. Anywhere else on the pitch they’d be given as free-kicks. ---
**Author:** ![Sampsiceramos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Sampsiceramos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampsiceramos)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscure-rule-violations-that-ought-to-be-called-more-often/752619/13 "2016-04-26T14:00:54Z")
Football: Arguing with the referee should be a carded offense with much greater frequency, and in particular teams like Barcelona drive me insane with their incessant and unsportsmanlike ref-badgering - never mind the fact that it’s blatant hypocrisy given how often fouls that simply _are not_ get called in favour of Barcelona when other teams choose to make of the game what it is: a contact sport. Quite frankly, accosting the referee in any way should be a direct red offense. It compromises the integrity and purity of the game and it needs to fucking stop. On the other hand, idiotic referees need to stop calling fouls on perfectly legal, clean shoulder tackles. It’s a contact sport. If Per Mertesacker barrels into David Silva, shoulder first, in a perfectly legal fashion, and Silva gets taken off his feet because he’s simply a smaller man, that’s a sign that David Silva should perhaps spend more time in the weight room, not a goddamn foul. ---
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2016, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscure-rule-violations-that-ought-to-be-called-more-often/752619/14 "2016-04-28T07:06:16Z")
> [@Sampsiceramos](#): > > Football: Arguing with the referee should be a carded offense with much greater frequency, and in particular teams like Barcelona drive me insane with their incessant and unsportsmanlike ref-badgering - never mind the fact that it’s blatant hypocrisy given how often fouls that simply _are not_ get called in favour of Barcelona when other teams choose to make of the game what it is: a contact sport. > > Quite frankly, accosting the referee in any way should be a direct red offense. It compromises the integrity and purity of the game and it needs to fucking stop. > > On the other hand, idiotic referees need to stop calling fouls on perfectly legal, clean shoulder tackles. It’s a contact sport. If Per Mertesacker barrels into David Silva, shoulder first, in a perfectly legal fashion, and Silva gets taken off his feet because he’s simply a smaller man, that’s a sign that David Silva should perhaps spend more time in the weight room, not a goddamn foul. A LOT of what you are describing would eliminated with automatic red cards for making deliberate contact with the referee. MLB, NBA, NFL and NHL if you put your hands on an official, your outta there, no exceptions, no question. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2016, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscure-rule-violations-that-ought-to-be-called-more-often/752619/15 "2016-04-28T12:26:54Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Don’t know if it’s obscure but it’s almost never enforced. How often does an NBA player take THREE steps after stopping his dribble? ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_T-Cups](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sir\_T-Cups](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_T-Cups)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2016, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscure-rule-violations-that-ought-to-be-called-more-often/752619/16 "2016-04-28T13:08:38Z")
> [@JSexton](#): > > And they should. I mean, its unfortunate that you cfan get away wioth a lot more DPI (and OPI!) on Hail Mary plays, but calling DPI there means the team gets to move to the 1 yard line and try again. Is that really how you want every single one score game to come down to? As it is, both teams are committing offsetting penalties as long as they aren’t too egregious, and that’s probably the best possible outcome in this situation. As a Packers fan, given what happened 2 years ago. I agree. ---
**Author:** ![denquixote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9bd4f/32.png) [@denquixote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/denquixote)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscure-rule-violations-that-ought-to-be-called-more-often/752619/17 "2016-05-09T05:23:40Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > How often does an NBA player take THREE steps after stopping his dribble? Three step? How about eight steps? [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/7VuG1K-LFgY/maxresdefault.jpg "CRAZY Most Unbelievable NBA Travel 8 steps not called (Kendrick Perkins)! By: The Hunger Gainz") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VuG1K-LFgY) ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2016, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obscure-rule-violations-that-ought-to-be-called-more-often/752619/18 "2016-05-10T15:32:13Z")
> [@Sir\_T-Cups](#): > > As a Packers fan, given what happened 2 years ago. I agree. Yopu mean the play where Golden Tate [caught the ball first](https://lifexinxrewind.wordpress.com/2012/09/26/why-the-seahawks-packers-finish-was-not-an-interception-and-why-it-would-have-been-called-the-same-by-any-referee-crew/)?