# Obsessive atheists **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 22, 2013, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obsessive-atheists/666893 "2013-08-22T18:15:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obsessive-atheists/666893/61 "2013-08-23T01:26:56Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > Officially being a non-religious country is not the same as “eliminating” religion. > > Try again: the communists eliminated the state religion, but the majority of Russians are still Orthodox Christians and were still Orthodox under communism. > > Actually Stalin enlisted the aid of the Church to stir up nationalist fervor to help in the fight against the Nazis. > > Check China now. Lots of atheists but lots of religious minorities, too. The majority of Chinese now practice some form of religion. > > Again, no state religion, but pretty much everybody was a Buddhist anyway. > > The Nazis didn’t have an official religion but the vast majority of Germans of the period were and still are Christian. > > Based on your examples, not really. Even though the states involved were nonreligious or actively hostile to religion (except maybe China), the vast majority of the citizenry were still religious. > > And looking at some of the examples in particular, Lenin had success against the Russian Orthodox Church because it actually was corrupt and unpopular with the people. Once that aspect of it went away, Stalin was able to bring it back pretty successfully. Please provide some/any evidence that Stalin was promoting religion? As a paranoid, the last thing he would have allowed was a re-established Church. Please provide some evidence that more than a miniscule portion of Chinese are religious. China has never been religious. They worship their ancestors. BTW…it was the specific STATES/GOVS that murdered the tens of millions of people. Had the old regimes remained in power 99.5% of the victims wouldnt have died at the hands of their government. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obsessive-atheists/666893/62 "2013-08-23T01:34:52Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > The Nazis were in no way Christian…or religious. [Of course](http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3400/4621468913_b220573c63_z.jpg) they were; they were Christians killing traditional victims of Christians just as Christians always have. There’s nothing more archetypically Christian than massacring Jews, as demonstrated by history. > [@RickJay](#): > > Are you under the impression Jews were gassed for not being observant Christians? Among other reasons. The Nazi genocide of the Jews was just another pogrom in a long string of Christian pogroms. Killing Jews is even the origin of the word “[pogrom](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pogrom)”. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obsessive-atheists/666893/63 "2013-08-23T01:39:16Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Please provide some evidence that more than a miniscule portion of Chinese are religious. > **[Religion in China](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_China)** > > .mw-parser-output .smooth-pie{display:none;position:relative;width:100px;height:100px;border-radius:50%;background-color:yellowgreen;color:black;border:1px solid black}.mw-parser-output .smooth-pie div{position:absolute;transform-origin:left bottom;background-color:#655;color:black;top:0;left:50%;width:50%;height:50%;border-radius:0 500%0 0}.mw-parser-output .smooth-pie .pie50{transform-origin:left center;height:100%;border-radius:0 100%100%0/50%}.mw-parser-output .smooth-pie .pie12-5{clip-pat... ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obsessive-atheists/666893/64 "2013-08-23T01:41:53Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > [Of course](http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3400/4621468913_b220573c63_z.jpg) they were; they were Christians killing traditional victims of Christians just as Christians always have. There’s nothing more archetypically Christian than massacring Jews, as demonstrated by history. > > Among other reasons. The Nazi genocide of the Jews was just another pogrom in a long string of Christian pogroms. Killing Jews is even the origin of the word “[pogrom](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pogrom)”. The Nazis relied on (their understanding) of science to target Jews, device means to round them up and transport them and finally kill them. Check out Robert J Liftons Nazi Doctors. In fact he calls Germany the worlds first ‘biocracy’. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obsessive-atheists/666893/65 "2013-08-23T01:48:46Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > [Religion in China - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_China) From your link: > [@](#): > > Some scholars prefer not to use the term “religion” in reference to Buddhism and Taoism, and suggest “cultural practices”, ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obsessive-atheists/666893/66 "2013-08-23T01:49:36Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Lets see…they eliminated religion in Stalinist Russia…doh!! You know, that is a terrifically compelling point. Because millions of people were exterminated by Krushchev as well. And Breshnev, Andropov, Chernenko and Gorby. So, clearly, atheism leads to unthinkable brutality. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obsessive-atheists/666893/67 "2013-08-23T01:49:42Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > And the atheistic states of the middle 20th century probably murdered more people is a handful of decades than all the religions in all time. Nope. The Thirty Years War killed off a larger percentage of the population of Europe than the Homodor + Purges + WWII did. Industrialization triggered huge population surges; more than industrialized weapons could kill until nukes were invented, and famines in pre-industrial societies were harder to relieve. ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_Kirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@Capt\_Kirk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt_Kirk)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obsessive-atheists/666893/68 "2013-08-23T01:52:24Z")
Someone did not pay attention in History Class. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European\_wars\_of\_religion](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_wars_of_religion) Quite a few colonists of North America came here because they were persecuted in the Old World for having the “wrong” Religion. **Capt** ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obsessive-atheists/666893/69 "2013-08-23T01:54:46Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > The Nazis relied on (their understanding) of science to target Jews, device means to round them up and transport them and finally kill them. No; they created _pseudoscience_ to justify their existing hatreds. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obsessive-atheists/666893/70 "2013-08-23T02:02:35Z")
> [@CJJ](#): > > You may as well argue the stupidity of, say, believing a particular sports team or your own nation is the “best”. Even if you have sound, logical arguments that “prove” the belief is incorrect, most fans/patriots will (at best) redefine “best” to incorporate your objections, or (at worst) interpret it as an insult. I for one think the NFL is a colossal waste of time, and I am amazed at how American culture incessantly rams it down our throat, but that doesn’t mean I need to call out fans as “stupid”. Granted, the NFL doesn’t yet push proscriptive legislation, and there doesn’t seem to be widespread discrimination against anti-football types (yet), but IMO the analogy holds. Well one of the NFL teams is the best – or at least won the championship. When was the last time God faced off against Baal? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obsessive-atheists/666893/71 "2013-08-23T02:04:50Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > Well one of the NFL teams is the best – or at least won the championship. When was the last time God faced off against Baal? Did god and baal make it through the play-offs? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obsessive-atheists/666893/72 "2013-08-23T02:42:33Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > I’m curious. There is a subset of atheists who are always “preaching”, and my question is: Why are these people so obsessed with, and disdainful of, something they don’t even believe exists? > > 😕 They’re not. They’re disdainful of those who **do** believe it. And you know very well that people who believe it – zealously – are a **problem.** ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obsessive-atheists/666893/73 "2013-08-23T02:44:52Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > Well one of the NFL teams is the best – or at least won the championship. When was the last time God faced off against Baal? BTW, is that pronounced “bahl” or “bail”? (I would think “bahl”; but, I once sang in a chorus that did Handel’s musical setting of the duel between Elijah and the priests of Baal, and in that setting it was pronounced “bail.”) ---
**Author:** ![Critical1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Critical1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Critical1)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obsessive-atheists/666893/74 "2013-08-23T02:46:04Z")
> [@CJJ](#): > > You may as well argue the stupidity of, say, believing a particular sports team or your own nation is the “best”. Even if you have sound, logical arguments that “prove” the belief is incorrect, most fans/patriots will (at best) redefine “best” to incorporate your objections, or (at worst) interpret it as an insult. I for one think the NFL is a colossal waste of time, and I am amazed at how American culture incessantly rams it down our throat, but that doesn’t mean I need to call out fans as “stupid”. Granted, the NFL doesn’t yet push proscriptive legislation, and there doesn’t seem to be widespread discrimination against anti-football types (yet), but IMO the analogy holds. Stupid might be a bit strong but ignorant would probably be pretty accurate. From [Birging](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basking_in_reflected_glory) on one hand to the simple fact that what you are really doing is selling hours and days of your life to the advertisers of the teams in exchange for entertainment that is hugely inflated by the very same advertisers and the sports leagues themselves. You are selling not only the time you spend in front of of the tv but also the time it takes you to earn the money for the tickets/jerseys and other stuff that goes along with being a fan. The psychological manipulation that goes into generating such a fan base must be immense, and its something you never hear a word about. Kind of like the same manipulation that goes into religious indoctrination. The fans/believers cannot know that they are being manipulated, they must believe its all good intentions and honesty behind all that money (hours of your life spent earning money to give to these institutions) I care far more about people being robbed of the one life they have on this earth by people who blatantly disregard the health and well being of their victims and their families than I do about some mythical bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obsessive-atheists/666893/75 "2013-08-23T03:04:24Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > If pretending that there is some sort of equality in numbers and/or intensity between the two extremes makes you happy, go for it. See Post 27. The last two words will do. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obsessive-atheists/666893/76 "2013-08-23T03:13:04Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > The Jews, and many others. World War II, the Nazis. Very famous. :rolleyes:Nice try. The Nazis were not Christians and acted on no Christian doctrine. They were a bunch of crazed atheists. Accept responsibility for your murderous brethren. And knowing you, why not rejoice!? After all, they killed religionists. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obsessive-atheists/666893/77 "2013-08-23T03:17:09Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > :rolleyes:Nice try. The Nazis were not Christians and acted on no Christian doctrine. They were a bunch of crazed atheists. Accept responsibility for your murderous brethren. And knowing you, why not rejoice!? After all, they killed religionists. That smear didn’t take as long as I expected. And it _was_ expected. edited to add: [Religion in Nazi Germany.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Nazi_Germany) ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obsessive-atheists/666893/78 "2013-08-23T03:19:43Z")
[quote=“Great\_Antibob, post:59, topic:666893”] The Nazis didn’t have an official religion but the vast majority of Germans of the period were and still are Christian. /QUOTE] Nice slight of hand there with Germans" and Nazis". While Germans, even Nazis, might have been of Christian descent, and while the country might have embraced its Christian roots after the fall of Hitler, the Nazis did not practice Christianity. They tried to snuff out any allegiance that was not to the Fuhrer, The Fatherland and the Master Race. As religion goes, they were atheistic. ---
**Author:** ![OurLordPeace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e8c25b/32.png) [@OurLordPeace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OurLordPeace)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obsessive-atheists/666893/79 "2013-08-23T03:22:27Z")
I want to thank everybody who set madsircool straight. I cannot stand that canard, otherwise known as “The Stalin Fallacy.” 1. Hitler was no atheist. Most of the Nazis were either Catholic or Lutheran, though some were pagan or atheist/secular/etc. Only one Nazi Catholic was excommunicated. It was Goebbels, who married a Protestant. 2. The global population expanded greatly in the twentieth century, and killing got very efficient, so of course the raw numbers will be bigger. You have to look at it per capita. 3. Also, compare the regimes you mention with all the religious strife throughout all of history. There’s no comparison. Oh, have you considered what the Christians did to the indigenous pagans of the Western hemisphere? 4. If people are violent due to, say, Maoism, at least there’s an issue involved. They’re fighting for something. To atheists, religious strife is about nothing. 5. To the extent that atheist regimes are great at liquidating their opponents, I say, to the believers of the world, “Let that be a lesson to you. Don’t piss us off.” Just a couple hours ago, I was nearly violently assaulted by a Muslim because I said that he and his kind ought to go fight their own war (against the secular regime) in Syria, and leave me out of it. Typical, typical. ---
**Author:** ![OurLordPeace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e8c25b/32.png) [@OurLordPeace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OurLordPeace)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obsessive-atheists/666893/80 "2013-08-23T03:23:44Z")
[quote=“magellan01, post:78, topic:666893”] > [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > The Nazis didn’t have an official religion but the vast majority of Germans of the period were and still are Christian. /QUOTE] > > Nice slight of hand there with Germans" and Nazis". While Germans, even Nazis, might have been of Christian descent, and while the country might have embraced its Christian roots after the fall of Hitler, the Nazis did not practice Christianity. They tried to snuff out any allegiance that was not to the Fuhrer, The Fatherland and the Master Race. As religion goes, they were atheistic. Read my previous post. Look at point number one, and correct your error right now. This is aimed at magellan01… something strange happened. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obsessive-atheists/666893.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obsessive-atheists/666893.md?page=5)