Maybe. But I wasn’t referring to revealing that one is an atheist or talking about those views, rather the habit of calling those who do believe stupid and evil.
And yes, if that habit persists into adult life I could see it might cause some problems, though likely there would be associated personality traits and lack of judgment as the more immediate cause of any job loss, divorce, or disowning.
I also have a relative who almost lost his job for insulting his non-atheist co-workers, and I unfriended him from Facebook after he posted a meme advocating a Christian holocaust.
:smack:
This relative does have Asperger’s, something I long suspected but yes, he has officially been diagnosed with it.
Which are the same thing in the eyes of the believers.
And frankly it is a stupid belief; there’s only so much dancing around that you can do in a conversation. Straightforward arguments like “I don’t believe in God for the same reason I don’t believe in Santa Claus” are taken as insulting, for the simple reason that believing in gods really is just as stupid as believing in Santa Claus, and believers are deeply in denial about that.
And it’s frankly unfair and unrealistic to expect atheists to remain “polite” when believers are constantly heaping insults, accusations and threats on us. When politeness is rewarded with mouth-frothing hatred, don’t expect much politeness.
I can’t speak for all believers obviously. But I can only assume that you’ve encountered a very different sort in your life than I have, having spent many years as an active Roman Catholic and now Episcopalian. While my former RC brethren and sistren could be quite intolerant in certain areas, I never heard anything like hatred for atheists expressed, let alone any mouth-frothing.
I don’t exactly expect people to remain reasonably polite, but I kind of think it’s the wise and sane thing to do, at least IRL.
Yeah, yeah. Because we couldn’t possible hold our beliefs rationally. It must be daddy issues.
Come on, that doesn’t happen all the time. I know plenty of atheists who live perfectly normal lives. My sister and brother-in-law, for example. They’re happily married, employed, raising a daughter (who is also atheist, as far as I know) and well-loved by our entire family.
I know two people who profess a belief in God. Both are undeniably not stupid. Both are undeniably not evil, and–in fact-- are two of the kindest people I know. Still, it is incomprehensible to me how someone can maintain a belief in god for whatever reason.
So, I suppose it is partly this confusion that motivates some of the attitude that could be labeled “obsessive” or dismissive (or rude). You just want to shake someone for a second and scream “stop being such an idiot!” IRL, I don’t act that way. On the internet, I have fallen short a few times recently.
Although I agree with your religious beliefs, it’s counter-productive to call religious belief stupid, ignorant, worthless, etc. Religion is largely a cultural/social marker, so criticizing specific beliefs for their lack of logic/common sense is probably going to be ineffective; people don’t believe them for logical reasons, but because their family/friends/social group share these beliefs as markers.
You may as well argue the stupidity of, say, believing a particular sports team or your own nation is the “best”. Even if you have sound, logical arguments that “prove” the belief is incorrect, most fans/patriots will (at best) redefine “best” to incorporate your objections, or (at worst) interpret it as an insult. I for one think the NFL is a colossal waste of time, and I am amazed at how American culture incessantly rams it down our throat, but that doesn’t mean I need to call out fans as “stupid”. Granted, the NFL doesn’t yet push proscriptive legislation, and there doesn’t seem to be widespread discrimination against anti-football types (yet), but IMO the analogy holds.
Yes, but NFL fans will (usually) admit there is nothing logical about their team loyalty, and will probably admit they follow a team because it’s the hometown team, or their father’s favorite team, or whatever. Religious people seem to push back against the idea that it’s just a social marker and has no literal truth.
I regularly see and hear comments by religious people that seemingly make the assumption that their beliefs are relevant to everyone else. I almost always resist the urge to comment because, while it’s OK to give out bad advice and spread bad ideas based on religion, criticizing those ideas is somehow mean.
Considering the nature of most religious beliefs, I think atheists are largely incredibly quiet on the issue.
Which is just a way of telling atheists to shut up, since any admission of atheism will be taken that way. For that matter it means that rationalists and people who take science seriously should also shut up, since they can’t help but call religion stupid and wrong at least by implication.
Religion is stupid, and it’s wrong, and it’s very, very obviously so; and the only way to avoid that becoming obvious is to create a society dedicated to protecting their fantasy. To teach creationism in schools, condemn and silence atheists, condemn rationality and science, and all the rest. Religion is by nature incapable of handling truth, and needs to be shielded from it.
I was around my parents this weekend. I’ve never met two people who are more confident and outspoken in their religious beliefs. They have no problem presuming what God or Jesus wants/thinks/loves/said/etc. They live and breath Christian dogma and assume that everyone else naturally believes with them. Even though they know I’m agnostic, they still talk to me about God the way they used to when I was a little kid and I had no choice but to be under their spell. They could try to be respectful of my views. But they never even try.
Yet the moment I am honest about my position and speak my mind, they’ll jump down my throat and point out how “arrogant” I’m being. So I say nothing and let them pontificate in peace. Life is too short to get into exhausting arguments with delusional people.
My parents are obsessive. There are a whole lot more of their kind than mine.
Who are these peoples that the Christians gassed??
The Jews, and many others. World War II, the Nazis. Very famous.
Lets see…they eliminated religion in Stalinist Russia…doh!!
Maoist China?? Doh!!!
Khmer Rouge Cambodia? Doh!!
Hitlers Germany?? Nope.
Maybe religion actually tames some of the savagery inside of us??
The Nazis were in no way Christian…or religious. They were driven by a desire to reclaim the pre Christian German past as a single master race…and biology. Their hatred of the Jews was driven by genes.
You bet. If those Crusaders at the Siege of Ma’arra in 1098 who spit-roasted and ate Muslim children hasn’t been constrained by Christian ethics, that shit could of got way out of line.
Are you under the impression Jews were gassed for not being observant Christians? If so, you need to really brush up on your history.
Officially being a non-religious country is not the same as “eliminating” religion.
Try again: the communists eliminated the state religion, but the majority of Russians are still Orthodox Christians and were still Orthodox under communism.
Actually Stalin enlisted the aid of the Church to stir up nationalist fervor to help in the fight against the Nazis.
Check China now. Lots of atheists but lots of religious minorities, too. The majority of Chinese now practice some form of religion.
Again, no state religion, but pretty much everybody was a Buddhist anyway.
The Nazis didn’t have an official religion but the vast majority of Germans of the period were and still are Christian.
Based on your examples, not really. Even though the states involved were nonreligious or actively hostile to religion (except maybe China), the vast majority of the citizenry were still religious.
And looking at some of the examples in particular, Lenin had success against the Russian Orthodox Church because it actually was corrupt and unpopular with the people. Once that aspect of it went away, Stalin was able to bring it back pretty successfully.
I didnt say they werent ever violent but post Constantine Rome wasnt neatly as violent as pre Constantine Rome. And the atheistic states of the middle 20th century probably murdered more people is a handful of decades than all the religions in all time.
