# Obsolete vocational certifications/licenses/credentials that you can still get (non-academic) **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 15, 2015, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obsolete-vocational-certifications-licenses-credentials-that-you-can-still-get-non-academic/720125 "2015-05-15T17:57:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2015, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obsolete-vocational-certifications-licenses-credentials-that-you-can-still-get-non-academic/720125/1 "2015-05-15T17:57:25Z")
This question is _not_ about the continued proliferation of academic degrees that have been alleged to be of marginal utility in the workforce. What are some notably antiquated, obsolete, or charmingly old-fashioned vocational qualifications (e.g. certifications, professional licenses, etc.) that can still be obtained today? For example, can you still become a certified typewriter repairman? There has been some [buzz](http://money.cnn.com/2015/03/01/smallbusiness/typewriter-repair-obsolete-jobs-tom-hanks/) over the fact that there are still typewriter repair jobs out there, but I’m not finding anything about how I can get the kind of certificate that grandpa had in '47 when he fixed Smith-Coronas for a living. Can I hop the next train to some rust-belt has-been industrial city and take the exam in some dingy warehouse? I once saw a picture of a mid-20th century certification verifying that the holder passed a test in Palmer Hand writing (the bane of many a '50’s kid’s school experience). Can you still get one? Cost and utility are not in scope for this question. I’m looking at this question with an eye to having a good time and having an office full of conversation-starters. Certifications in homeopathy, chiropractic, and other similar alternative health fads don’t really count because practitioners are very much in demand. Certifications that relate to nearly-forgotten fads could be in scope. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendajo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Arrendajo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arrendajo)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2015, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obsolete-vocational-certifications-licenses-credentials-that-you-can-still-get-non-academic/720125/2 "2015-05-15T20:27:36Z")
I was wondering about medical transcription, and if it had been replaced by some kind of modern communication technology. Apparently it is still a [going occupation](http://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/medical-transcriptionists.htm), though growth has slowed. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2015, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obsolete-vocational-certifications-licenses-credentials-that-you-can-still-get-non-academic/720125/3 "2015-05-15T20:36:09Z")
[Shorthand](https://www.universalclass.com/i/course/learn-shorthand.htm). ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2015, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obsolete-vocational-certifications-licenses-credentials-that-you-can-still-get-non-academic/720125/4 "2015-05-15T20:48:11Z")
VCR player repair? Casset player repair? ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2015, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obsolete-vocational-certifications-licenses-credentials-that-you-can-still-get-non-academic/720125/5 "2015-05-15T20:55:47Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > VCR player repair? Casset player repair? The question wasn’t whether these fields still exist, but whether I can get a formal qualification in them, especially a qualification that was once well-respected in the heyday of those technologies. Consider that today you can go for a plethora of IT certs such as CCNE. Can you get a Certified VCR Repair Technician cert from Sony today? From a recording industry association (RIAA or MPAA maybe)? ---
**Author:** ![gotpasswords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c57346/32.png) [@gotpasswords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gotpasswords)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2015, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obsolete-vocational-certifications-licenses-credentials-that-you-can-still-get-non-academic/720125/6 "2015-05-15T21:39:36Z")
This one’s a double-header. You can still get [certification as a steam locomotive fireman or engineer](http://cumbrestoltec.com/engineer-fireman-school/). Not only that, but you’ll be trained by certified trainers. They don’t describe the career track (heh!) to obtaining a certification to teach and certify firemen and engineers, but I can safely assume it’s sooty. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2015, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obsolete-vocational-certifications-licenses-credentials-that-you-can-still-get-non-academic/720125/7 "2015-05-15T21:51:49Z")
> [@gotpasswords](#): > > certification as a steam \*\*locomotive \*\*fireman or engineer. Not only that, but you’ll be \*\*trained \*\*… Mmmhmmm… ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2015, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obsolete-vocational-certifications-licenses-credentials-that-you-can-still-get-non-academic/720125/8 "2015-05-15T22:03:12Z")
> [@gotpasswords](#): > > This one’s a double-header. You can still get [certification as a steam locomotive fireman or engineer](http://cumbrestoltec.com/engineer-fireman-school/). Not only that, but you’ll be trained by certified trainers. > > They don’t describe the career track (heh!) to obtaining a certification to teach and certify firemen and engineers, but I can safely assume it’s sooty. That’s a good one, thanks. It does look like it’s a fairly recent program as opposed to something that is left over from the days of steam engines, but it seems like it could have real meaning. They may hire new operators out of the graduates! Anyway, that’s the kind of thing I was targeting when I mentioned _interesting_ obsolete credentials. I’m potentially looking for this kind of experience: Hiring manager: “Blah blah blah thank you for coming to the interview. Ah, Mr. robert\_columbia, I see you are an MCSE.” Me: “No, it’s actually an MCS_O_ - a Maryland Credentialed Stagecoach Operator. I’m qualified in both two and four-horse coaches. I get called every few months for fantasy weddings and birthdays. Last year I hosted a big moonlight buggy ride through the streets of Old Annapolis. Made lots of money and had a really good time.” Hiring manager: “Wow, you’re the sort of independent-path thinker we need here! Would you prefer a BMW or a Mercedes as your company car?” ---
**Author:** ![Marion\_Wormer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d07c76/32.png) [@Marion\_Wormer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marion_Wormer)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2015, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obsolete-vocational-certifications-licenses-credentials-that-you-can-still-get-non-academic/720125/9 "2015-05-16T03:22:25Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > [Shorthand](https://www.universalclass.com/i/course/learn-shorthand.htm). I recommend starting w/ Gregg Notehand. It’s easier to learn, and once you learn it, you can pick up a book of short forms online for free, or hardback for a buck or so. Why yes, I can take shorthand, and darned useful it is too. ---
**Author:** ![dstarfire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dstarfire/32/5762_2.png) [@dstarfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dstarfire)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2015, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obsolete-vocational-certifications-licenses-credentials-that-you-can-still-get-non-academic/720125/10 "2015-05-16T21:28:36Z")
What about being a crewmember for tall ships? Don’t know if there’s a certification there, but it’d definitely be interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Knig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@Typo\_Knig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Knig)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2015, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obsolete-vocational-certifications-licenses-credentials-that-you-can-still-get-non-academic/720125/11 "2015-05-16T21:40:56Z")
[Certified Farrier](http://americanfarriers.org/certification/) Not obsolete, but I imagine the market is small, certainly smaller than a century ago. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2015, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obsolete-vocational-certifications-licenses-credentials-that-you-can-still-get-non-academic/720125/12 "2015-05-16T21:56:25Z")
I have a friend that is the IT manager for the [Plimoth Planation](http://www.plimoth.org/about-us/jobs) (known more commonly as the Plymouth Colony site of Pilgrim fame). It is a ‘living history’ museum with lots of historical actors working on site using the old technology and techniques. Positions for things like blacksmith are surprisingly competitive and require people that aspire to it to go through the normal apprenticeships that blacksmiths always have through the ages because the work they will be doing is very real and not just for show. Other positions like the various ship jobs are the same. There are a number of living history museums like that such as Jamestown and Colonial Williamsburg. They have their own selection and certification procedures but you can’t just walk in as a volunteer and start giving demonstrations unless you really are just as trained in that particular craft as a professional from times past. It looks like there are also few programs that still offer blacksmithing certifications like [The Virginia Institute of Blacksmithing](http://vablacksmithing.org/category/classes/blacksmithing-certification/). [You can still get certified as a farrier](http://americanfarriers.org/certification/) (horse shoer) as well. I don’t know that one quite qualifies as obsolete because good farriers are still in high demand among horse owners and the job pays very well per hour but it is a throwback art. It is a dangerous and difficult job because you have to custom fit metal shoes to very large animals that may or may not want to cooperate. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2015, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obsolete-vocational-certifications-licenses-credentials-that-you-can-still-get-non-academic/720125/13 "2015-05-16T23:20:16Z")
> [@Typo\_Knig](#): > > [Certified Farrier](http://americanfarriers.org/certification/) Not obsolete, but I imagine the market is small, certainly smaller than a century ago. You beat me to the punch on that one. There is still a big demand for farriers, especially in certain areas where recreational horse riding is common, but horses still exist in small numbers nearly everywhere. I knew a certified farrier once. He was also a certified alcoholic and drug addict but he did know how to shoe horses quite well and that was all that mattered because very few people do these days. Horse owners are generally affluent and don’t even blink when they get a multi-hundred dollar bill for services on their beloved animals. Shoeing horses is generally not a do-it-yourself job even for people that are extremely knowledgeable about other aspects of horse stewardship. Good farriers have to know everything from blacksmithing to equine podiatry. Even moderate hoof problems like splitting can get serious enough to lame or kill a horse if it is done incorrectly. It is also an extremely dangerous job. You have to work with the horse’s back legs in a vulnerable position even when the horse isn’t well trained or doesn’t want to cooperate. One swift kick can permanently disable or kill you like it has many others so it isn’t a job for the risk adverse. Most rural farriers do the job part-time for extra cash but there are probably a few farriers in places like NYC and other big cities that make good money shoeing the police and tourism industry horses. Farriers that specialize in high end show horses and race horses make extremely good money based on hourly rates. The latter group can make well into the six figures a year. > **[Average Farrier Salary](https://www.thefarrierguide.com/p/average-farrier-salary.html)** > > Since farriery is primarily a self-employed occupation, if you have the experience and training ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2015, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obsolete-vocational-certifications-licenses-credentials-that-you-can-still-get-non-academic/720125/14 "2015-05-17T02:40:09Z")
> [@dstarfire](#): > > What about being a crewmember for tall ships? Don’t know if there’s a certification there, but it’d definitely be interesting. Link to Able Body Seaman including AB Sail. [http://columbiapacificmaritime.com/ableseaman.html](http://columbiapacificmaritime.com/ableseaman.html) ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obsolete-vocational-certifications-licenses-credentials-that-you-can-still-get-non-academic/720125/15 "2015-05-19T03:16:21Z")
Not _quite_ completely obsolete—but then again, neither are steam locomotive engineers, technically—but you can get an FAA Type Rating in historical aircraft, some of which have only very few flying examples. The [Me-262, for example](http://www.warbirdsnews.com/warbirds-news/collings-foundation-messerschmitt-262.html). ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obsolete-vocational-certifications-licenses-credentials-that-you-can-still-get-non-academic/720125/16 "2015-05-19T04:34:29Z")
Credentials? Conrad Black was a pompous ass who wanted to be a British Lord. Make a big enough donation to charities, etc. pull the right strings and apparently you could buy a House of Lords lordship. Not sure if knighthoods are equally for sale. Of course for Conrad, he made his mark running newspapers, including British ones but mainly Canadian and American. He spent his career insulting the (Liberal) prime minister, only to discover that the requirement for the British government to get approval for titles to Canadian citizens from the Canadian government - was not a rubber stamp. He therefore renounced his Canadian citizenship to get the title. He was later convicted and did time due to charges in the USA, but apparently that’s no hindrance for a non-Canadian returning to live in Canada - money talks. So there you go - a fairly obsolete title, especially if you don’t intend to sit in the House and vote on legislation. (Do purchased titles allow you to do that?) Not sure if, as a convict, he still retains his title. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obsolete-vocational-certifications-licenses-credentials-that-you-can-still-get-non-academic/720125/17 "2015-05-19T05:35:51Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > He spent his career insulting the (Liberal) prime minister, only to discover that the requirement for the British government to get approval for titles to Canadian citizens from the Canadian government - was not a rubber stamp. AFAIK there is not and never has been such a requirement. Chretien placed _diplomatic_ pressure on the British government to change its mind, but legally Canada was not involved at all, and there are no consequences for Canadian citizens who accept titles without the approval of the Canadian govenrment. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obsolete-vocational-certifications-licenses-credentials-that-you-can-still-get-non-academic/720125/18 "2015-05-19T06:45:53Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > AFAIK there is not and never has been such a requirement. Chretien placed _diplomatic_ pressure on the British government to change its mind, but legally Canada was not involved at all, and there are no consequences for Canadian citizens who accept titles without the approval of the Canadian govenrment. I think it was more than diplomatic pressure applied to the British Government. Chretien advised the Queen not to grant the honour to Black, a Canadian citizen, while Blair advised the Queen to grant the honour to Black, a UK citizen. The impasse was resolved when Black renounced his Canadian citizenship, whereupon Chretien withdrew his advice, as pertaining to a matter no longer of any interest to Canada. Black is still a life peer, and so still a member of the House of Lords in the UK. However he is on leave of absence, which means he is currently ineligible to take part in the work of the house. Leave of absence is usually granted to any member who has been absent for a while, unless they object. A member on leave of absence can give three months notice of his intention to return, and Black could do this at any time. As a member on leave of absence, he can’t use the library or research facilities of Parliament, but he can use the catering services. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obsolete-vocational-certifications-licenses-credentials-that-you-can-still-get-non-academic/720125/19 "2015-05-19T14:44:31Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > AFAIK there is not and never has been such a requirement. Chretien placed _diplomatic_ pressure on the British government to change its mind, but legally Canada was not involved at all, and there are no consequences for Canadian citizens who accept titles without the approval of the Canadian govenrment. It may be a law or an understanding or courtesy or precedent, but the British government _will not_ grant any titles to a Canadian citizen without the approval of the Canadian government. Chretien refused to grant such permission. (Or maybe the governor general has to permit the honour, and listens to the prime minister) > [@](#): > > After the controversial elevation of Lords Atholstan and Beaverbrook to the Peerage of the United Kingdom, the Nickle Resolution was presented to the Canadian House of Commons in 1917 requesting the Sovereign not to grant knighthoods, baronetcies or peerages to Canadians. This triggered the Canadian titles debate and led to a separate system of orders, decorations, and medals for Canada. Canadians who were granted peerages after this date had already to hold or acquire British Citizenship, such as Lord Thomson of Fleet. However, the then Canadian Citizenship Act stated that Canadians who acquired foreign citizenship by any means other than marriage would renounce their Canadian citizenship. This goes back to all the different threads about what the Queen can and cannot do. Technically, she grants titles, technically, she could do whatever she wants - until she annoys people enough that they change the laws. A smart queen, being told by, say, the British government to approve a title and the Canadian government to NOT approve a title, would probably tell the two - “work it out and let me know what both of you agree on”. A clever British government would probably not want to annoy the Canadian government for the sake of one pompous wannabee. > [@](#): > > Baron Black of Crossharbour. In 2001, Tony Blair advised Queen Elizabeth II to confer on Conrad Black the dignity of a life peerage with the title of Baron Black.[16] Canadian Prime Minister Jean Chrétien gave the opinion to his government’s nationality department that a Canadian citizen should not receive a British titular honour, citing the 1919 Nickle Resolution. Black at the time held both Canadian and British citizenship. After the Federal Court of Canada ruled against Black in his suit against Chrétien, Black renounced his Canadian citizenship in 2001, remaining a citizen of the UK. In a May 2012 interview with Peter Mansbridge, Black said he will consider applying for Canadian citizenship “within a year or two” when he hoped the matter would no longer be controversial and he could “make an application like any other person who has been a temporary resident.”[17] The decision to grant or reject his application would be at the discretion of the federal Cabinet.[18] In 2007, at Chicago, Conrad Black was sent to jail for six years after being convicted of defrauding investors. He was released in May 2012 after spending a total of three years in a prison in Florida following an appeal.[19][20] He has since been expelled from the Queen’s Privy Council for Canada and removed from the Order of Canada. ---
**Author:** ![filmstar-en](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/50afbb/32.png) [@filmstar-en](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmstar-en)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obsolete-vocational-certifications-licenses-credentials-that-you-can-still-get-non-academic/720125/20 "2015-05-19T16:18:50Z")
As an aside, here is the former Baron Black in full flow as he responds to reports of these unfortunate career events and jousts with the political interviewer Jeremy Paxman. > **[Ex-media mogul on life behind bars](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-20036674)** > > Conrad Black, once one of the most powerful men in the media, has been talking to the BBC's Newsnight following his release from a Miami prison in May. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obsolete-vocational-certifications-licenses-credentials-that-you-can-still-get-non-academic/720125.md?page=2)