# Obvious Fiction Influences **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 10, 2016, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-fiction-influences/762364 "2016-08-10T17:36:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-fiction-influences/762364/1 "2016-08-10T17:36:09Z")
Have you ever read a fictional work and recognized the source of the plot, ideas, dialogue, macguffin, whatever? A few weeks ago I read a short mystery/crime story set in wartime Washington DC. Within a few pages I was sure the author had just read David Brinkley’s wonderful book _Washington at War_. After that, I could spot chapter and verse influence, even to the order of topics. A few years ago I read a book supposedly by a college kid who traveled with an old-school carnival for a summer, and learned all the grifter’s tricks for the various games and booths. I was disappointed, because again I could see chapter and verse from John Scarne and Darwin Ortiz’s excellent writeups on carnival fraudsters. Anyone else had such an experience? ETA: Tom Clancy and every military equipment manual ever written are acknowledged in advance. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-fiction-influences/762364/2 "2016-08-10T17:47:24Z")
Richard Condon lifted a bit of the _Manchurian Candidate_ directly from Robert Grave’s _I, Claudius_. (The section in question described the sexual relationship (or lack thereof) between Johnny Islin and his wife - mirroring exactly the description of the same between Augustus and Livia.) ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-fiction-influences/762364/3 "2016-08-10T18:57:39Z")
A. E. van Vogt’s _Empire of the Atom_ was Robert Graves’s _I, Claudius_ set in a galactic empire. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-fiction-influences/762364/4 "2016-08-10T19:16:55Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > A. E. van Vogt’s _Empire of the Atom_ was Robert Graves’s _I, Claudius_ set in a galactic empire. Well, if we’re going for the obvious homage to history, Asimov’s [Foundation and Empire](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_and_Empire)’s opening novella “The Last General” is a fanciful retelling of the history of Flavius Belisarius and Justinian I. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-fiction-influences/762364/5 "2016-08-10T19:24:16Z")
The opening of Robert Heinlein’s _Citizen of the Galaxy_ owes quite a bit to Rudyard Kipling’s _Kim_. (And it wasn’t until years after I first read it that I realized that anthropologist “Margaret Mader” was a very thinly-disguised anthropologist Margaret Meade.) ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-fiction-influences/762364/6 "2016-08-10T19:27:06Z")
Two of Fred Saberhagen’s “Berserker” novels were not only obviously based on other influences, but painfully obviously. Berserker White Death was a re-telling of Moby Dick, right down to the guy with one leg replaced by a prosthetic of berserker hull metal, and the defective giant evil berserker that leaked a radioactive glow. Painful. Berserker Fury was a re-telling of the battle of Midway, again in such painful detail as emphasizing the difference between high-altitude bombers and surface-level bombers – in deep space! ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-fiction-influences/762364/7 "2016-08-10T20:11:53Z")
Well, I’ve read [The Iron Tower](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Iron_Tower). Disappointingly the perfectly fair assessment of the level of LotR-plagiarism has been edited out of that Wikipedia entry to be replaced by the wishy-washy: > [@](#): > > The Iron Tower Trilogy was written as the backstory to a proposed sequel to J. R. R. Tolkien’s The Lord of the Rings novel, so unsurprisingly it strongly resembles that work. It has even caused cries of plagiarism from readers who are unfamiliar with its genesis. The genesis matters not, the book is “inspired” by LotR in so many ways that it’s barely readable. ---
**Author:** ![Chihuahua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dec6dc/32.png) [@Chihuahua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chihuahua)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-fiction-influences/762364/8 "2016-08-10T20:14:51Z")
Back in the 80’s I had a two-part Punisher comic that was a story about the title character in the Vietnam era. He was a Marine sniper engaged in a duel with a VC sniper. It took like two pages before I realized the entire story was an anecdote from the life of real-life sniper Carlos Hathcock. I just put the comic down and picked up the concluding issue, turned to the last page, and saw that it even had the exact same ending. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-fiction-influences/762364/9 "2016-08-10T20:29:41Z")
I think the movie _Avatar_ was a pretty direct ripoff of Harry Harrison’s _Death World_ book series. ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-fiction-influences/762364/10 "2016-08-10T20:47:40Z")
> [@Chihuahua](#): > > Back in the 80’s I had a two-part Punisher comic that was a story about the title character in the Vietnam era. He was a Marine sniper engaged in a duel with a VC sniper. It took like two pages before I realized the entire story was an anecdote from the life of real-life sniper Carlos Hathcock. I just put the comic down and picked up the concluding issue, turned to the last page, and saw that it even had the exact same ending. The movie “Sniper” did that as well and may have continued it in its sequels (I don’t know, I saw the first but haven’t seen any subsequent movies). If you’re going to do sniper fiction, following Hathcock’s true story is the way to show how super awesome your protagonist is, even if it seems BS. ---
**Author:** ![Dendarii\_Dame](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbce88/32.png) [@Dendarii\_Dame](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dendarii_Dame)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-fiction-influences/762364/11 "2016-08-10T20:51:29Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I think the movie _Avatar_ was a pretty direct ripoff of Harry Harrison’s _Death World_ book series. Midworld by Alan Dean Foster (and its sequel, Mid Flinx) are influenced by Death World as well. ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-fiction-influences/762364/12 "2016-08-10T20:53:28Z")
I think I recall hearing that Star Wars was influenced by something, can’t remember what though… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-fiction-influences/762364/13 "2016-08-10T20:58:42Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I think the movie _Avatar_ was a pretty direct ripoff of Harry Harrison’s _Death World_ book series. Nah. A little DNA there, maybe, but just a few strands. Deathworld is perhaps HH’s only work deserving of a decent miniseries/film treatment. Back to OP: In general, I wasn’t meaning to reference fiction influenced by earlier fiction, but fiction that had clear basis in not just general history or whatever, but a specific nonfiction book or telling. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-fiction-influences/762364/14 "2016-08-10T21:03:26Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I think the movie _Avatar_ was a pretty direct ripoff of Harry Harrison’s _Death World_ book series. I thought it was a pretty obvious ripoff of Anderson’s “Call Me Joe” [Call Me Joe - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Call_Me_Joe) John Hemry’s “JAG in Space” novels ([Introduction to the JAG In Space Series | Jack Campbell / John G. Hemry](http://www.jack-campbell.com/_series/jag_in_space/jag_intro.htm)) are entertaining - but if you’re familiar with US Naval history from the 80s and 90s, you’ll recognize where several of the plots are from. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-fiction-influences/762364/15 "2016-08-10T21:05:55Z")
William Forstchen’s Ice Prophet series is essentially “Dune on a frozen Earth” ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-fiction-influences/762364/16 "2016-08-10T21:15:04Z")
In one of Elizabeth Moon’s _Paksennarion_ novels, there’s a bit where our hero goes into the basement of a keep, fights an ogre-like creature, and rescues a kidnapped gnome, who expresses his thanks by giving her an iron ring signifying her as a friend to gnome-kind. This is lifted directly from a D&D module, _The Village of Hommlet._ ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-fiction-influences/762364/17 "2016-08-10T21:18:08Z")
> [@naita](#): > > Well, I’ve read [The Iron Tower](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Iron_Tower). Disappointingly the perfectly fair assessment of the level of LotR-plagiarism has been edited out of that Wikipedia entry to be replaced by the wishy-washy: > > > [@](#): > > > > The Iron Tower Trilogy was written as the backstory to a proposed sequel to J. R. R. Tolkien’s The Lord of the Rings novel, so unsurprisingly it strongly resembles that work. It has even caused cries of plagiarism from readers who are unfamiliar with its genesis. > > The genesis matters not, the book is “inspired” by LotR in so many ways that it’s barely readable. Likewise Terry Brooks’ _Shannara_ series: > **[The Sword of Shannara](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sword_of_Shannara)** > > The Sword of Shannara is a 1977 epic fantasy novel by American writer Terry Brooks. It is the first book in a titular trilogy. > The novel interweaves two major plots into a fictional world called The Four Lands. One follows the protagonist Shea Ohmsford on his quest to gain the Sword of Shannara and use it to confront the Warlock Lord (the antagonist). The other plot shadows Prince Balinor Buckhannah's attempt to oust his insane brother Palance from the throne of Callahorn while the country and... > [@](#): > > Critics have derided the novel for being derivative of J.R.R. Tolkien’s The Lord of the Rings. Some have accused Brooks of lifting the entire plot and many of his characters directly from Lord of the Rings; others have regarded the book more favorably and say that new writers often start by copying the style of established writers. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-fiction-influences/762364/18 "2016-08-10T21:57:45Z")
I read _The Fixer_ by Bernard Mahmud in college. A friend later asked me what it was about. Remembering we took a Russian history course together, I said “The Bayliss Case.” He knew immediately. It was based on a real historical event, but one few Americans knew about. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2016, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-fiction-influences/762364/19 "2016-08-11T00:10:26Z")
> [@Chihuahua](#): > > Back in the 80’s I had a two-part Punisher comic that was a story about the title character in the Vietnam era. He was a Marine sniper engaged in a duel with a VC sniper. It took like two pages before I realized the entire story was an anecdote from the life of real-life sniper Carlos Hathcock. I just put the comic down and picked up the concluding issue, turned to the last page, and saw that it even had the exact same ending. Not only that, but The Punisher, as a character, was an obvious rip-off of Don Pendleton’s Mack Bolan, “The Executioner.” Except that, over time, the Punisher stories have become the better product. One of those rare cases where the knock-off is better than the original. ---
**Author:** ![Reno\_Nevada](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Reno\_Nevada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reno_Nevada)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2016, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-fiction-influences/762364/20 "2016-08-11T01:53:10Z")
When I first read _Master and Commander_, the first novel about Jack Aubrey and Stephen Maturin, I understood that Aubrey was based Thomas Cochrane. When I read Cochrane’s autobiography I discovered just how closely the cruise of the Sophie was based on the cruise of the Speedy, right down to the surgeon holding the helm of the brig while everyone else boards the Spanish frigate. In one of the later novels Maturin notes that he sees Aubrey as becoming less like Cochran. As another example, I re-read Neal Stephenson’s _Anathem_. Between the first time I had read it and the second, I read Roger Penrose’ _Emperor’s New Mind_. I think Stephenson read it and was strongly influenced while writing _Anathem_–they share a thread about consciousness being a quantum phenomenon. \*Anathem \*also depicts a millennia-old civilization that has apparently never developed true artificial intelligence. Finally, tiling is an important subplot. Well, not a smoking gun, I suppose. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-fiction-influences/762364.md?page=2)