# Obvious things about a creative work you realize after the millionth time (OPEN SPOILERS POSSIBLE) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 24, 2009, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117 "2009-07-24T13:20:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 103
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2014, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2041 "2014-10-24T13:20:21Z")
My apologies. I thought you were claiming that “rarebit” was the older term. If that’s not what you’re claiming, just forget it. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2014, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2042 "2014-10-24T14:37:03Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > “Welsh rarebit” and “Welsh rabbit” are the same thing. “Rarebit” is a folk etymology for “rabbit”: > > [Welsh rarebit - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_rarebit) They were the same thing before 1725 maybe. Nowadays, one is a dish made with toasted cheese, the other is a hopping mammal. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2014, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2043 "2014-10-25T05:56:02Z")
It appears to me from this chart that both terms are still used: > **[Google Books Ngram Viewer](https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=Welsh%2Brabbit%2CWelsh%2Brarebit&year_start=1750&year_end=2008&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2CWelsh%20rabbit%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2CWelsh%20rarebit%3B%2Cc0)** > > Google Books Ngram Viewer ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2014, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2044 "2014-10-25T10:32:40Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Since I started actually listening to digital copies of stuff on headphones, I’ve had so many of these realizations. It happens a lot. Charles Manson was just saying, “So _that’s_ what “Helter Skelter” means! I feel kind of silly now.” ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2014, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2045 "2014-10-25T14:50:22Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Interesting. I remember reading an interview with lyricist Tim Rice, who said he used the word “Superstar” after hearing the Warhol quote. While he didn’t originate it, it’s agreed Jesus Christ Superstar led to it becoming a commonplace word. I must disagree. In the late 1960s, the term “superstar” was in common use among sports fans and sports media, as a term that applied to just a few players at the top of a sport. Mays and Mantle were superstars, for instance. Maybe J.C. Superstar caused the term to break out into general use rather than referring almost exclusively to sports stars (I’m pretty sure it did, actually), but it was already a commonplace term before J.C. Superstar was released. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2014, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2046 "2014-10-25T15:05:59Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Maybe J.C. Superstar caused the term to break out into general use rather than referring almost exclusively to sports stars (I’m pretty sure it did, actually), but it was already a commonplace term before J.C. Superstar was released. John Lennon used the word in “Instant Karma” well before the release of _Jesus Christ Superstar_. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2014, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2047 "2014-10-25T18:59:00Z")
I’ve found “superstar” in the stage musical [A Connecticut Yankee](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Connecticut_Yankee_%28musical%29)(1927) and not referring to sports stars. > **[A Connecticut Yankee](https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=5HTZJnDY8j8C&lpg=PA2&dq=superstar&pg=PA2&hl=en)** Also, here’s a reference in a 1914 novel. > **[Clipped Wings](https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=RPY4AQAAMAAJ&q=superstar&dq=superstar&hl=en&sa=X&ei=DfFLVOyINKPY7Abm4oAg&ved=0CEgQ6AEwBzhQ)** ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2014, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2048 "2014-10-26T01:01:54Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > I must disagree. In the late 1960s, the term “superstar” was in common use among sports fans and sports media, as a term that applied to just a few players at the top of a sport. Mays and Mantle were superstars, for instance. > > Maybe J.C. Superstar caused the term to break out into general use rather than referring almost exclusively to sports stars (I’m pretty sure it did, actually), but it was already a commonplace term before J.C. Superstar was released. > [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > John Lennon used the word in “Instant Karma” well before the release of _Jesus Christ Superstar_. I’m sure I remember the term before the release of _Jesus Christ Superstar_. [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superstar#Origin_of_term) lists the first mention of the word as about 100 years ago and then by Andy Warhol with using it in the 1960s. The entry does seem to credit _JC Superstar_ with popularizing the word, but I thought the title of the play and film was meant as a riff on a word that had just already recently gained widespread popularity. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2014, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2049 "2014-10-26T14:24:06Z")
> [@Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](#): > > This is about a _body_ of work: > > That all of those great, immaculate-sounding background vocals on Carpenters’ records of the 1970s were done by… the two Carpenters siblings, multi-tracking themselves George Harrison did the same thing on his 1970 album, _All Things Must Pass_. It seems to have been a thing for awhile back then. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2014, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2050 "2014-10-26T14:58:02Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > Wow! I loved the cast album when I was about ten, and read the lyrics on the LP dust sleeve carefully then…yet I always thought it was “lives” as well (but “lyres” does make more sense.) > > I know I read the lyrics at the time, because I recall wondering why they mispronounced “job” in “All For the Best” – and why there was a typo, the “j” in that word being oddly capitalized… You were right, it WAS ‘lives.’ I’ve still got the inner sleeve from the copy of _Godspell_ I bought in 1972, which has all the lyrics (and this discussion made me dig it out from deep in a closet!), and it says ‘lives.’ Psalm 137 (which is otherwise the source of the lyrics for “On the Willows”) says ‘lyres,’ though, and I agree that makes more sense. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2014, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2051 "2014-10-26T15:05:18Z")
OK, here’s mine: I bought Neil Young’s _Harvest_ album back in 1972, and have played it frequently over the years. But decades went by before I noticed the extremely obvious meaning of the couplet in the refrain of the title song: \*Dream up, dream up, let me fill your cup with the promise of a man. \* :smack: ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2014, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2052 "2014-10-26T16:06:37Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > You were right, it WAS ‘lives.’ > > I’ve still got the inner sleeve from the copy of _Godspell_ I bought in 1972, which has all the lyrics (and this discussion made me dig it out from deep in a closet!), and it says ‘lives.’ Psalm 137 (which is otherwise the source of the lyrics for “On the Willows”) says ‘lyres,’ though, and I agree that makes more sense. Nice job with the research! Sounds like, perhaps, the person who prepared the inner LP sleeve messed up. It’s odd they would be typing it out while listening to the music, rather than just be given the “book” (that’s Broadway for “screenplay”), but pending further information, it seems the likeliest explanation. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2014, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2053 "2014-10-26T16:13:51Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Puffingstuff could easily be pot. Tobacco as well, I guess, but it sounds more like a pot thing. As for Lidsville, a “lid” in some quarters was slang for a half an ounce of pot. The term, with that approximate meaning, was in regular use when I was in high school. I can attest for certain that back in 1971-72, a lid was more than a dime bag, and less than an ounce. (I didn’t buy dope, and only occasionally smoked when it was offered, but I hung around with plenty of people who smoked more regularly.) ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2014, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2054 "2014-10-26T16:52:42Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > Nice job with the research! Sounds like, perhaps, the person who prepared the inner LP sleeve messed up. It’s odd they would be typing it out while listening to the music, rather than just be given the “book” (that’s Broadway for “screenplay”), but pending further information, it seems the likeliest explanation. OK, I just listened to the CD on headphones. The word comes up 3 times in the song - once about 15 seconds in, another at ~48 seconds, and the other is the last word in the fadeout at the end. And damn, it’s hard to tell _what_ the vocalist is singing, but after several listens, I’m coming down on ‘lyres.’ But it’s so hard to tell, that of course if you read the lyrics off the innersleeve, you’d think it was ‘lives’ because it wasn’t clearly _not_ ‘lives.’ The only one that’s clearly ‘lyres’ even now is the one at the 0:48 mark. I’d still say the one at the 0:15 mark, while not clear either way, sounds kinda like there’s a ‘v’ consonant, and damned if I can tell anything from the one in the fadeout - I’m not sure the vocalist hit that consonant at all as he stretches out that last syllable. But given that the only instance I’m sure of is clearly ‘lyres’ if you listen closely enough, I’ve got to assume ‘lyres’ was intended throughout, and the inner sleeve has it wrong. Especially given that the Psalm says ‘lyres’ and the change would have made no sense. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2014, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2055 "2014-10-26T17:53:34Z")
I’ve been watching Adam West’s _ **Batman** _ four times a week at midnight lately. I haven’t seen this show in _years_, but I remember virtually every detail of each episode. Twice now, I’ve had incredible “Aha, I _know_ that actress, but where the hell _from_?” moments. The first one was **this babe:** [![](http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-gjomIC2HuTo/Tm7x_obBVRI/AAAAAAAADus/JnxGBBmTh_g/s1600/screen-capture-17.png) ](http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-gjomIC2HuTo/Tm7x_obBVRI/AAAAAAAADus/JnxGBBmTh_g/s1600/screen-capture-17.png) The second was **this one:** [http://www.bat-mania.co.uk/guides/images/molls/moth.png](http://www.bat-mania.co.uk/guides/images/molls/moth.png) Here is the first again in a movie you might recognize: [https://yuq.me/users/22/485/ApGc8gfRLw.png](https://yuq.me/users/22/485/ApGc8gfRLw.png) _ **Cool Hand Luke** _ Here is the second in one of my favorite episodes of one of my favorite shows: [![](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-jWJDIkxcJ38/U1YWlqKniaI/AAAAAAANviY/Ec5vgF9ax-Y/s1600/Columbo-Forgotten_Lady-1975-VCSS1-096.jpg) ](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-jWJDIkxcJ38/U1YWlqKniaI/AAAAAAANviY/Ec5vgF9ax-Y/s1600/Columbo-Forgotten_Lady-1975-VCSS1-096.jpg) _ **Columbo** _, “Forgotten Lady” I’m sure they were in many other things as well, but these are two I recognized them from. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2014, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2056 "2014-10-26T20:08:36Z")
In the 80’s Thundercats cartoon Panthro was obviously black. But just today I thought of it, Black Panther.:smack: ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2014, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2057 "2014-10-26T21:27:45Z")
I just realized for the first time in 45 years that the planet-killer in “The Doomsday Machine” had that weird shape because that episode was _ **Star Trek** _’s version of _ **Moby Dick** _. It was supposed to look like a huge white whale! :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2058 "2014-10-27T03:26:07Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > I just realized for the first time in 45 years that the planet-killer in “The Doomsday Machine” had that weird shape because that episode was _ **Star Trek** _’s version of _ **Moby Dick** _. It was supposed to look like a huge white whale! :smack: In an extended-universe TNG novel, it was revealed that the planet-killer thing was the last-ditch effort of some planet to destroy the Borg. The crew of the Enterprise re-analzyed the data, backtracked where the object had come from (they found a dead planet there), and determined that the object’s path would have eventually taken it to the same sector of the galaxy where they first encountered the Borg. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2059 "2014-10-27T04:35:30Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > The term, with that approximate meaning, was in regular use when I was in high school. I can attest for certain that back in 1971-72, a lid was more than a dime bag, and less than an ounce. (I didn’t buy dope, and only occasionally smoked when it was offered, but I hung around with plenty of people who smoked more regularly.) During those years, when I did buy dope regularly, a lid was an ounce. Period. $40 for the best, if I remember correctly. Acapulto Gold? Maui Wowie? ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2060 "2014-10-27T04:41:17Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Willy Loman in _Death of a Salesman_ has dementia. The thought never occurred to me when I read the play in school or saw the Brian Dennehy version, but when I saw the Philip Seymour Hoffman version it seemed so obvious. I’m not sure if Miller intended it or not, but if you look at Willy’s memory lapses, his confusion and his depression and anger, it fits very well. Huh. A deflating interpretation to the tragedy, I think, but ok. But the “unintentional” part gets it a buzzer ruling from the judges to OP. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=102) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=104)