# Obvious things about a creative work you realize after the millionth time (OPEN SPOILERS POSSIBLE) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 24, 2009, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117 "2009-07-24T13:20:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 106
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2101 "2014-11-20T16:46:16Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Though I admit I’m baffled by the reference to “ten tin soldiers.” I think I need to read some more Solzhenitsyn… Or that other master of the fine arts, Tom Laughlin. Joking. The song “One Tin Soldier” by The Original Caste was used as the theme song in Laughlin’s movie, _Billy Jack_. I’m not linking to the song because you will never get it out of your head. Tin soldiers were originally child’s toys, long before they turned plastic. They were light, cheap, and easily breakable and discarded. All English kids would have played with them, and adults would be familiar with their literary meaning. A tin soldier is the hero in the Hans Christian Anderson fairy tale, “The Steadfast Tin Soldier.” They also turn up in _The Nutcracker_ ballet. They don’t have the same deep history in American folklore, but Bernie Taupin would find it a natural metaphor for fake strength in soldiers “if there comes a time/Guns and gates no longer hold you in”. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2102 "2014-11-20T16:50:26Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Or that other master of the fine arts, Tom Laughlin. > > Joking. The song “One Tin Soldier” by The Original Caste was used as the theme song in Laughlin’s movie, _Billy Jack_. I’m not linking to the song because you will never get it out of your head. > > Tin soldiers were originally child’s toys, long before they turned plastic. They were light, cheap, and easily breakable and discarded. All English kids would have played with them, and adults would be familiar with their literary meaning. A tin soldier is the hero in the Hans Christian Anderson fairy tale, “The Steadfast Tin Soldier.” They also turn up in _The Nutcracker_ ballet. > > They don’t have the same deep history in American folklore, but Bernie Taupin would find it a natural metaphor for fake strength in soldiers “if there comes a time/Guns and gates no longer hold you in”. I am familiar with all the above, and your interpretation does make sense. Thanks for the input! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2014, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2103 "2014-11-21T02:56:34Z")
In the Seinfeld episode where Kramer starts shaving himself with butter, and later basting himself in it, he gets Newman really hungry and he runs off to the coffee shop. Once there, he hallucinates Kramer’s face on a turkey. I just noticed, what the heck kind of coffee shop serves a full turkey that looks like its been in the oven like a Thanksgiving dinner? The waitress doesn’t even bring it in front of anyone, she just puts it on the counter and starts to cut it. Who cuts turkey on a lunch counter? Shouldn’t she be doing that in the back? Shouldn’t a cook be doing it? ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2014, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2104 "2014-11-30T01:33:11Z")
I’m watching the American version of [The Chase](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Chase_%28U.S._game_show%29) and I just found out that Robert Redford named the Sundance Film Festival after the Sundance Kid. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2014, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2105 "2014-11-30T01:50:28Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Until about five minutes ago, I never realized these two songs were one and the same, they sound so freakin’ different: > > \*\*D'oh!\*\* :smack: Well to be fair they’re about as different as two compositions of the same song can be. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2014, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2106 "2014-11-30T20:27:14Z")
More precisely, Redford in 1981 created the Sundance Institute which he named after the movie and then in 1984 the Institute took over an already existing film festival and in 1991 named it the Sundance Film Festival: > **[Sundance Institute](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sundance_Institute)** > > Sundance Institute is a non-profit organization founded by Robert Redford committed to the growth of independent artists. The institute is driven by its programs that discover and support independent filmmakers, theatre artists and composers from all over the world. At the core of the programs is the goal to introduce audiences to the artists' new work, aided by the institute's labs, granting and mentorship programs that take place throughout the year in the United States and internationally. > Th... > **[Sundance Film Festival](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sundance_Film_Festival)** > > The Sundance Film Festival (formerly Utah/US Film Festival, then US Film and Video Festival) is an annual film festival organized by the Sundance Institute. It is the largest independent film festival in the United States, with more than 46,660 attending in 2016. It takes place each January in Park City, Utah; Salt Lake City, Utah; and at the Sundance Resort (a ski resort near Provo, Utah), and acts as a showcase for new work from American and international independent filmmakers. The festi Su... ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2014, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2107 "2014-11-30T21:10:20Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > More precisely, Redford in 1981 created the Sundance Institute which he named after the movie and then in 1984 the Institute took over an already existing film festival and in 1991 named it the Sundance Film Festival: > > [Sundance Institute - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sundance_Institute) > > [Sundance Film Festival - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sundance_Film_Festival) I don’t think I’ve ever heard of the Sundance Institute. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2014, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2108 "2014-11-30T23:22:14Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > More precisely, Redford in 1981 created the Sundance Institute which he named after the movie and then in 1984 the Institute took over an already existing film festival and in 1991 named it the Sundance Film Festival: > > [Sundance Institute - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sundance_Institute) > > [Sundance Film Festival - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sundance_Film_Festival) Even more precisely, Sundance Institute is undoubtedly named after the Sundance Ski Resort that Redford opened in 1969 (although he may not have changed the name to Sundance until later). I’ve skied there, and was told that one of the figures off in the distance was Redford, but you couldn’t prove it by me. Despite what the Wikipedia article says, there was originally a separate festival at Sundance. The festival at Park City was distinct I saw **F/X** (1986) at the Park City Film Festival (not “Sundance”) at the Egyptian Theater in Park City. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2014, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2109 "2014-12-01T02:10:57Z")
There was a ski area known as Timp Haven which opened in 1944. Redford bought it in 1968. At some point he renamed it the Sundance Mountain Resort. Did he really rename it in 1969, the year that the film came out?: > **[Sundance Resort](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sundance_Resort)** > > Sundance Resort, also known as Sundance Mountain Resort, is a ski resort located 13 miles (21 km) northeast of Provo, Utah. It includes more than 5,000 acres (2,000 ha) on the slopes of Mount Timpanogos in Utah's Wasatch Range. Alpine skiing began on the site in 1944. Actor Robert Redford acquired the area in 1968, and established a year-round resort that would later spawn the independent Sundance Film Festival and the non-profit Sundance Institute. The resort was first listed as a censu The area... > **[Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butch_Cassidy_and_the_Sundance_Kid)** > > Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid is a 1969 American Western buddy film directed by George Roy Hill and written by William Goldman. Based loosely on fact, the film tells the story of Wild West outlaws Robert LeRoy Parker, known as Butch Cassidy (Paul Newman), and his partner Harry Longabaugh, the "Sundance Kid" (Robert Redford), who are on the run from a crack US posse after a string of train robberies. The pair and Sundance's lover, Etta Place (Katharine Ross), flee to Bolivia to escape the ... ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2014, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2110 "2014-12-01T12:45:36Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > There was a ski area known as Timp Haven which opened in 1944. Redford bought it in 1968. At some point he renamed it the Sundance Mountain Resort. Did he really rename it in 1969, the year that the film came out?: > > [Sundance Resort - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sundance_Resort) > > [Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butch_Cassidy_and_the_Sundance_Kid) I don’t know, but I’ll bet he renamed it before Sundance Institute. I don’t know, though, because I got to Utah in 1983, after the 1981 naming of Sunddance\*. And, for some reason, neither the Wikipedia pages nor the Sundance site itself tell you when the resort was renamed. \*Actually, I first got to Utah in 1980, but I was only passing through, and wasn’y paying attention. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2014, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2111 "2014-12-01T15:14:04Z")
In the opening scene of Stephen King’s Rose Madder, Rose is suffering a miscarriage after a beating by her husband Norman. If the baby had been a girl, she was going to name it Carrie. Which was the name of the book that first made King famous. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2014, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2112 "2014-12-01T16:29:46Z")
I was always a big Monty Python fan. I always liked the Piranha Brothers sketch. It is not surprising that as an American who first saw the show in reruns that I wouldn’t understand what it was parodying. But it was years after I saw the movie _The Krays_ that it suddenly became clear. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2014, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2113 "2014-12-01T20:30:47Z")
> [@Hermione](#): > > Posted too soon…I misread the Wikipedia article. It was Ken Russell, who directed the video, who hadn’t known that Nikita was a male name. Elton John and, presumably, Bernie Taupin did, but they had no problem with accepting the video’s script. I doubt that MTV would have shown a straight up homosexual romantic video. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2014, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2114 "2014-12-06T09:19:14Z")
I didn’t realize this until a few days ago and I feel ashamed about missing this for so long. The circle in [Circle K](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle_K) convenience stores is supposed to be synonymous with the letter “O”. Thus, “Circle K” is another way of saying “OK”. That’s something that’s especially apparent once you look at the company logo. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2014, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2115 "2014-12-06T09:56:54Z")
I was watching U2 on TV performing at the World Aids Day concert and I was thinking “Wow, when Bono takes off those sunglasses he’s always wearing it’s amazing how much he looks like Bruce Springsteen.” In my defense, I was also engaged in a conversation about the upcoming football game at the time. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2014, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2116 "2014-12-06T12:45:23Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Joking. The song “One Tin Soldier” by The Original Caste was used as the theme song in Laughlin’s movie, _Billy Jack_. I’m not linking to the song because you will never get it out of your head. I can probably manage; I’ve got thousands of songs kicking around in my head, and it’s rare for any one of them to hold off all the others for very long. But boy howdy, I’d forgotten just how…well, to call that song ‘preachy’ is a huge understatement. It’s more like the songwriters thought, “why hit people over the head with a hammer when an anvil will do?” ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2014, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2117 "2014-12-07T01:59:41Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I was watching U2 on TV performing at the World Aids Day concert and I was thinking “Wow, when Bono takes off those sunglasses he’s always wearing it’s amazing how much he looks like Bruce Springsteen.” > > In my defense, I was also engaged in a conversation about the upcoming football game at the time. I don’t get it. (I thought at first that you meant that Bono was Bruce Springsteen, but Wikipedia says Bono is Paul David Hewson.) What’s the obvious thing that you didn’t realize? ---
**Author:** ![typoink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@typoink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/typoink)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2014, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2118 "2014-12-07T04:06:13Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > I don’t get it. (I thought at first that you meant that Bono was Bruce Springsteen, but Wikipedia says Bono is Paul David Hewson.) What’s the obvious thing that you didn’t realize? Bono is recovering from an injury currently, so Springsteen actually stepped in to sing with U2 at the concert in question. Bono DOES look a bit like Springsteen, but Springsteen looks a LOT like Springsteen. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2014, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2119 "2014-12-07T04:54:29Z")
Thank’ee. I never would have figured that. (I’m kind of a Mahler fan…) ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2120 "2014-12-11T12:58:14Z")
Spoiler I was re-watching the film **Cloud Atlas** the other day, and I noticed for the first time that Rufus Sixsmith – the only character to appear “as himself” in two different storylines (and the only one played by the same actor, James d’Arcy, in two different sections) – dies at the ends of _San Francisco 1973_ the same way his lover, Robert Frobisher did in _Cambridge/Edinburgh 1936_ – being shot through the mouth. It’s also interesting that Ben Whishaw, who plays the Frobisher who wrote the titular _Cloud Atlas Sextet_ in the 1936 segment also plays the Record Store Clerk who can’t stop listening to it in the 1973 segment. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=105) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=107)