# Obvious things about a creative work you realize after the millionth time (OPEN SPOILERS POSSIBLE) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 24, 2009, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117 "2009-07-24T13:20:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 122
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2421 "2016-03-10T04:18:12Z")
> [@TreacherousCretin](#): > > I read an interview (Playboy?) in which Heller said Catch-22 contained two little inside jokes. From time to time people would mention one of them (Lt. Scheisskopf = Lt. Shithead), but no one had ever noticed the second one (or mentioned it to him, anyway). > I wonder if you’ve identified the second joke? Heller even has Yossarian imagine Orr paddling past Gibraltar with “that little blue oar.” > > BTW, I’m the one who posted C22 in the “go-to” thread, and want to know how I too never noticed Orr pulling Orr’s oar. > > I salute you. Aww, shucks. ::shyly looks down, twists toe into dirt:: I suppose it depends on whether the construction “to pull an X”, meaning “to imitate X”, dates from the 50s. But given that Heller had a few significant names in the novel, you have to think that Orr has that name for a reason. I did spot the Scheisskopf/Shithead joke, but I never really understood why Scheisskopf gets that moniker. Sure, he was an asshole with the parades, but he wasn’t a murderous gloryhound, like Cathcart or Peckem. They wanted the men to fly more and more missions; he just wanted 'em to march. ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2422 "2016-03-10T05:10:53Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > Aww, shucks. ::shyly looks down, twists toe into dirt:: > > I suppose it depends on whether the construction “to pull an X”, meaning “to imitate X”, dates from the 50s. But given that Heller had a few significant names in the novel, you have to think that Orr has that name for a reason. > > I did spot the Scheisskopf/Shithead joke, but I never really understood why Scheisskopf gets that moniker. Sure, he was an asshole with the parades, but he wasn’t a murderous gloryhound, like Cathcart or Peckem. They wanted the men to fly more and more missions; he just wanted 'em to march. Found it. Playboy Magazine, June 1975: “… **Playboy:** There is a minor character in Catch-22 named Scheisskopf. At one point, someone refers to him as a Shithead, with a capital S. Since _Scheisskopf_ is German for shithead, it works like a pun, though the capital letter looks as if it were a typographical error. Was that intentional? **Heller:** Yes, and you’re the first one to comment on it. I’ve waited 14 years for someone to pick that up. I’ve blabbed it to a couple of people _myself_, but nobody’s _asked_ about it. **Playboy:** Are there any other so-far-undetected jokes in _Catch-22_? **Heller:** There is one more. **Playboy:** Any chance you’ll tell us what it is? **Heller:** No chance at all.” ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2423 "2016-03-10T05:19:02Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > I kept on being confused about the number of times Trotsky was mentioned - wasn’t he icepicked in Mexico City in the early 1930s? Where the hell was Stalin? 1940, actually. ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2424 "2016-03-10T16:56:24Z")
My wife is the world’s biggest _Friends_ nut. She has every season on DVD, watches reruns whenever the TV is on, and knows every line of every episode. Which is why I was shocked when we recently saw the episode where Rachel and Monica take their apartment back after they’d lost it to Chandler and Joey in a bet. Monica says, “If you let us stay, Rachel and I will kiss for one minute.” Cut to the guys walking back into their old apartment saying, “Totally worth it!” It’s always been clear to me that Monica and Rachel kissed _each other_ for one minute. But in chatting with Mrs. Wheelz afterward, I found that, after seeing it a bazillion times, she thought that they kissed _the guys_ for one minute. The look on her face when she realized the truth was priceless. “That makes \*so much \*more sense!!” ---
**Author:** ![zoog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7ea924/32.png) [@zoog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoog)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2425 "2016-03-10T21:23:47Z")
It took several years for it to dawn on me that the Townes Van Zandt song “White Freightliner” wasn’t really about big trucks… ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2426 "2016-03-10T22:03:59Z")
Recognizing only the last name, and not knowing the song, I’m going to assume it’s a cocaine metaphor? ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2427 "2016-03-10T22:24:50Z")
I love “A Christmas Story.” Probably seen it 50+ times. The other day, I’m in the car with my wife and the classical station starts playing a piece that I immediately recognize as music from that movie. Further in the piece, another bit of music from somewhere else in the movie. Almost the entire piece was used in the movie in various places–stings, background, what have you. I asked **burpette** what the name of the piece was and she looks at me like I belong on the short bus. Now it makes perfect sense that music should be played in a movie about a kid and his cowboy fantasies (at Xmas). The piece was the “[Grand Canyon Suite](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVGOUHcdXy4)” by Ferde Grofé. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2016, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2428 "2016-03-20T19:52:28Z")
Years after seeing_Monty Python and the Holy Grail_ and the much older _The Wizard of Oz,_ something dawned on me.:smack: In_Grail,_ Sir Bedevere guides the locals through a path of badly bent logic to conclude that witches must be made of wood. In _Wizard,_ it is revealed on-screen that wizards also are made of wood. The pals dance down the YB Road singing, “We’re Off To Cedar Wizard !” ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2016, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2429 "2016-03-20T20:25:53Z")
:slaps **AskNott** with a wet trout: ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2016, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2430 "2016-03-20T20:51:55Z")
Huh. And all this time I thought the wizard was Jewish, as they were clearly singing, "We’re Off to Seder Wizard… " I guess this now clears up my confusion as to why a tornado was occurring in mid-March. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2016, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2431 "2016-03-20T23:23:03Z")
Here’s one that hit me today, because Gwyneth Paltrow was on The Tonight Show recently and I just watched the episode. Gwyneth has a [brand](http://www.racked.com/2015/7/21/9006055/goop-gwyneth-paltrow) called “[Goop](http://shop.goop.com/collections/skincare-by-goop?gclid=Cj0KEQjwlLm3BRDjnML3h9ic_vkBEiQABa5oecr5nf-FPuvwARvhaLNmX8gwhX9XgmshObvrueE1NyQaApxc8P8HAQ)”, and she was promoting her new skin care product line. Anyway, I had previously heard her blog was called “goop”, and wondered about that. Jimmy had to spell it out - her initials are GP. G–P. GooP. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Hermione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/cdc98d/32.png) [@Hermione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermione)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2016, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2432 "2016-03-21T02:31:42Z")
Right now I’m watching The Godfather Epic on HBO. It re-cuts the first two Godfather films in chronological order, with some scenes not seen in the theatrical versions. I haven’t seen all of Godfather III, but I’ve seen the ending scene on YouTube. While watching the opening scenes of the Epic, with Vito’s brother murdered by Don Ciccio, it occurs to me that the Godfather saga begins and ends with a parent weeping over a murdered child. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2016, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2433 "2016-03-21T02:53:58Z")
It was a labor of several days, in between NCAA Basketball tournament games, but I finally read through this entire thread. I’ve been waiting that long to spring the Cedar Wizard joke. I forgot most of the comments I would have made about some of these timeless mysteries in the thread. I think I can find a couple inside my dusty old skull. I’ll save them for another post. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2016, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2434 "2016-03-21T03:04:42Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > Teams that keep their nickname when they move can make for some “hunh?” moments. Los Angeles is not particularly known for its many lakes and rivers, but Minnesota, the original home of the Lakers, is. Before they became the Pelicans, New Orleans’ NBA team was the Hornets. Which are of no especial significance to New Orleans, but _are_ a symbol of Charlotte, North Carolina, the team’s first home. Due to the flatness of the city and the profusion of streetcar lines, residents of Brooklyn were once known as “Trolley Dodgers”, which nickname was applied to their baseball team. Who took the name when they moved to Los Angeles, despite it having no reference to the California city. The Detroit Pistons might seem appropriate for the Motor City, but it fit better in their previous city, Fort Wayne, Indiana. At the time, a whole lot of people there worked to make pistons and piston rings at the Perfect Circle plant. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2016, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2435 "2016-03-21T03:24:35Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > It’s a stereotype that black people prefer fruit-flavored beverages over cola-flavored. In the summer of 1967, I worked at the local Burger Chef in Anderson, Indiana. Some customers were predicable in their menu choices. Every Friday, when any group of black people were approaching the front door, the counter girls would sing out “Fish and orange!” More often than not, that’s what the order was. That was the first I had heard of the stereotype. Once I left that job, I never heard about it again until now. By the way, the girls never said it when customers were around to hear it. ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2016, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2436 "2016-03-21T05:27:25Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Gwyneth has a [brand](http://www.racked.com/2015/7/21/9006055/goop-gwyneth-paltrow) called “[Goop](http://shop.goop.com/collections/skincare-by-goop?gclid=Cj0KEQjwlLm3BRDjnML3h9ic_vkBEiQABa5oecr5nf-FPuvwARvhaLNmX8gwhX9XgmshObvrueE1NyQaApxc8P8HAQ)”, and she was promoting her new skin care product line. Interesting. There’s a hand cleaner mechanics use that’s called [Goop](http://goophandcleaner.com/original-goop/). Perhaps there’s no trademark infringement because they’re unlikely to be sold in the same place and they’re targeting different clientele. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2437 "2016-03-31T23:44:23Z")
“A Passage to Bangkok” by Rush. I was tempted to mention it in the “Tiny Errors That Drive You Insane” thread, since Bogota, Jamaica and Morocco aren’t even on the same continent as Bangkok and therefore can’t be connected by train. However, a closer inspection of the lyrics revealed that, oh yeah, the song’s definitely about drugs. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2016, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2438 "2016-04-01T00:02:36Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > . . . Morocco [isn’t] even on the same continent as Bangkok and therefore can’t be connected by train. . . . Is there train service from Egypt through Israel to, say, Jordan? If so, then, yeah, you could get from Morocco to Bangkok by rail. After all, Warsaw isn’t on the same continent as Beijing, but you can get from one to the other by rail. If the way is blocked either at Suez or the Israeli border, then never mind. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2016, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2439 "2016-04-01T00:26:13Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Is there train service from Egypt through Israel to, say, Jordan? If so, then, yeah, you could get from Morocco to Bangkok by rail. A quick Google search revealed that the Morocco/Algeria land border has been closed for over 20 years. So that right there’s a problem. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2016, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2440 "2016-04-01T15:12:33Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Is there train service from Egypt through Israel to, say, Jordan? If so, then, yeah, you could get from Morocco to Bangkok by rail. > > After all, Warsaw isn’t on the same continent as Beijing, but you can get from one to the other by rail. > > If the way is blocked either at Suez or the Israeli border, then never mind. You can’t even get from Myanmar to Bangkok by train. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=121) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=123)