# Obvious things about a creative work you realize after the millionth time (OPEN SPOILERS POSSIBLE) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 24, 2009, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117 "2009-07-24T13:20:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 124
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2016, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2461 "2016-04-29T02:18:39Z")
Keeping the accent of the character that you’re playing in the film even off camera is a reasonably common claim of certain intense actors, although who knows how often they really do it? In the movie _Tropic Thunder_, Robert Downey plays an Australian actor who’s playing (in the movie within the movie) an African-American soldier during the Vietnam War. He’s constantly, even when he’s not being filmed, trying to act like he’s actually a black American. At one point he tells his fellow actors, “Man, I don’t drop character 'till I done the DVD commentary.” ---
**Author:** ![Hermione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/cdc98d/32.png) [@Hermione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermione)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2016, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2462 "2016-04-29T02:38:47Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > Keeping the accent of the character that you’re playing in the film even off camera is a reasonably common claim of certain intense actors, although who knows how often they really do it? In the movie _Tropic Thunder_, Robert Downey plays an Australian actor who’s playing (in the movie within the movie) an African-American soldier during the Vietnam War. He’s constantly, even when he’s not being filmed, trying to act like he’s actually a black American. At one point he tells his fellow actors, “Man, I don’t drop character 'till I done the DVD commentary.” And, IIRC, Downey did Tropic Thunder’s DVD commentary in character! ---
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2463 "2016-05-18T03:00:54Z")
I don’t watch “The Big Bang Theory” (I’ve seen maybe 4-5 episodes over the years) but I was aware the two main characters were named Sheldon and Leonard. Kind of unusual names, and I should have realized much sooner why: they’re named after classic character actor and TV producer Sheldon Leonard! [Sheldon Leonard - Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheldon_Leonard) ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2464 "2016-05-18T09:18:12Z")
If we’re going to talk about actors that you might be surprised to learn what their native language is, one would be Charlize Theron. She grew up in South Africa speaking Afrikaans, which you can think of as either a dialect of Dutch that’s greatly different from the standard language or else as a different but closely related language. It appears that she didn’t learn English until she was a teenager and didn’t speak it without a noticeable accent until after she arrived in the U.S. and began acting. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2465 "2016-05-18T15:41:04Z")
I’ve heard the ad slogan “Trust the Midas Touch” all my life. Today I realized it was a reference to King Midas’s golden touch. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_T-Cups](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sir\_T-Cups](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_T-Cups)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2466 "2016-05-18T15:55:25Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > I’ve heard the ad slogan “Trust the Midas Touch” all my life. > > Today I realized it was a reference to King Midas’s golden touch. This reminds me of the popular post I see all the time on Pinterest about the soap brand Ajax. That Ajax is tougher than grease (greece). ---
**Author:** ![furryman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/furryman/32/99_2.png) [@furryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furryman)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2467 "2016-05-18T19:19:59Z")
> [@Sir\_T-Cups](#): > > This reminds me of the popular post I see all the time on Pinterest about the soap brand Ajax. That Ajax is tougher than grease (greece). :smack:😛 ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2468 "2016-05-18T19:32:40Z")
It took me a long time to realize why Pete Venkman was deliberately shocking one of his subjects in the start of Ghostbusters. I thought he was just being a dick. Later I saw that he was getting rid of the guy so he could be hit on the girl. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2469 "2016-05-23T13:52:39Z")
Don McLean’s American Pie: The line “my hands were clenched in fists of rage” seems to me to be a very obvious reference to the 1960’s [Black Power Salute](https://www.google.com/#q=black+power+salute). And when I attended a recent McLean concert, the entire audience spontaneously did the salute when he sang the phrase. Yet no web page on the subject seems to mention this. Odd. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2470 "2016-05-23T14:12:30Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > Charlize Theron.[…]It appears that she didn’t learn English until she was a teenager I _highly_ doubt that. English was a required language at SA primary school, even for Afrikaans kids, so she’d have started learning it a lot earlier. There _are_ Afrikaans kids in some rural areas who can’t speak English despite that, but _not_ ones from Benoni who grew up watching _Splash_ at the drive-in. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2471 "2016-05-23T15:22:50Z")
For what it’s worth, Charlize Theron’s [Imdb.com bio](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000234/bio?ref_=nm_ov_bio_sm) states: “As a teenager in her native South Africa, she learned English by watching American television”; and “Her first language is Afrikaans and she did not become fluent in English until she came to the United States. Consequently, American is her natural accent in English.” ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2472 "2016-05-23T16:06:00Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Don McLean’s American Pie: The line “my hands were clenched in fists of rage” seems to me to be a very obvious reference to the 1960’s [Black Power Salute](https://www.google.com/#q=black+power+salute). And when I attended a recent McLean concert, the entire audience spontaneously did the salute when he sang the phrase. > > Yet no web page on the subject seems to mention this. Odd. But that verse is probably about Altamont, the Hell’s Angels, and Mick Jagger. Nothing referencing Black Power in there at all, so it seems more likely to be a reference to the audience fighting with bikers. Maybe there’s a double meaning there, I guess, but I don’t really see any reason to think that. ---
**Author:** ![caligulathegod](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/caligulathegod/32/9685_2.png) [@caligulathegod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caligulathegod)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2473 "2016-05-24T03:33:51Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > I’ve heard the ad slogan “Trust the Midas Touch” all my life. > > Today I realized it was a reference to King Midas’s golden touch. And their mufflers are (or were. can’t find a recent reference) gold. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/zKkryXUEdaM/maxresdefault.jpg "Midas TV commercial (1982)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKkryXUEdaM) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2474 "2016-05-24T04:35:31Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > Keeping the accent of the character that you’re playing in the film even off camera is a reasonably common claim of certain intense actors, although who knows how often they really do it? In the movie _Tropic Thunder_, Robert Downey plays an Australian actor who’s playing (in the movie within the movie) an African-American soldier during the Vietnam War. He’s constantly, even when he’s not being filmed, trying to act like he’s actually a black American. At one point he tells his fellow actors, “Man, I don’t drop character 'till I done the DVD commentary.” Trivia note: Downey’s character was originally supposed to be Irish. But Downey had already learned how to do an Australian accent (for _Natural Born Killers_) so he asked them to switch it. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2475 "2016-05-24T04:41:35Z")
Another belated recognition for me is Reed Diamond. I watched him playing Laurence Dominic for an entire season on _Dollhouse_ and Daniel Whitehall for an entire season on _Agents of SHIELD_. And yet I never realized it was the same actor playing both characters. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2476 "2016-05-24T13:37:44Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > For what it’s worth, Charlize Theron’s [Imdb.com bio](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000234/bio?ref_=nm_ov_bio_sm) states: “As a teenager in her native South Africa, she learned English by watching American television”; and “Her first language is Afrikaans and she did not become fluent in English until she came to the United States. Consequently, American is her natural accent in English.” Neither of which are quotes from Theron. It _also_ says “One of the first movies she ever went to see at the theater was Splash (1984). She confessed that after watching the movie, she felt jealous of Daryl Hannah and developed a crush on Tom Hanks. She even said to herself that she could have played the role of Madison better than Hannah.” How old was she in 1984? Look, I’m not saying she was writing English sonnets, but the idea that someone of her upbringing, at that time and that place, couldn’t understand English, is just patently ridiculous, just Hollywood mythologising. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2016, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2477 "2016-05-25T00:15:25Z")
I watch a good number of shows on The CW network, and I have heard their jingle over and over again. I have also read their slogan, “Dare to Defy”, over and over. Yet, until one day when I happened to be looking directly at the written slogan while the jingle was being sung, I had been hearing “Heir to the fight” and wondering how that was supposed to make sense. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2016, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2478 "2016-05-25T02:44:44Z")
The IMDb says that there was a Dutch version of _Splash_, and that was presumably what she saw when the movie was released in South Africa when she was 9. MrDibble, what do you actually know about Theron’s upbringing, as opposed to what you’re guessing at? Do you know that she went to English-language schools rather than Afrikaans-language ones? Various websites say that she watched American movies and TV shows, presumably ones that were subtitled in Dutch, when she was a child. They say that she learned English by listening and repeating what she heard in the movies and TV shows (and in American music). I don’t claim to know the details of Theron’s life. Do you? How did you learn those details? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2016, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2479 "2016-05-25T08:59:17Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > The IMDb says that there was a Dutch version of _Splash_, and that was presumably what she saw when the movie was released in South Africa when she was 9. Err, no. When we get Hollywood movies, we get the English versions. We don’t do dubbing for movies. On TV, yes, not movies. If she saw _Splash_, she saw it in English. Note that spoken Dutch isn’t actually fully comprehensible to an Afrikaner. > [@](#): > > MrDibble, what do you actually know about Theron’s upbringing, as opposed to what you’re guessing at? What I’ve read in her bios and interviews with here here. I have, for instance, seen her interviewed on TV here speaking English with a South African accent (which she admitted was now hard for her to do, but at no point did she say she’d never done) > [@](#): > > Do you know that she went to English-language schools rather than Afrikaans-language ones? No, I _know_ she went to an Afrikaans school. That’s besides the point - even Afrikaans schools teach English from an early age, just like English schools teach Afrikaans. > [@](#): > > Various websites say that she watched American movies and TV shows, presumably ones that were subtitled in Dutch, when she was a child. I very much doubt she saw _anything_ subtitled in Dutch. _Most_ American TV was in English, some was _dubbed_ into _Afrikaans_, subtitles were _very rare_. > [@](#): > > They say that she learned English by listening and repeating what she heard in the movies and TV shows (and in American music). Various websites serve to directly contradict what I know about the state of English speaking in the town Theron grew up in. > [@](#): > > I don’t claim to know the details of Theron’s life. Do you? No. But I do know what gets taught in South African schools (and was at the time she grew up). I’m seeing a lot of references to (user-editd) IMDB bios and “websites”, I’m not seeing any actual direct quotes from Theron saying “I learned English in the US”. Find one, and I’ll believe it. Otherwise I’ll take what I personally know about Benoni in the late 80s over Hollywood mythologising. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2016, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2480 "2016-05-25T09:14:23Z")
The only direct quote I have ever heard from Theron is that she learned to speak English “properly” in the US, which is in no way the same thing. Her English may have been “bad”, but that doesn’t mean she only _learned_ English in the US, which is the factoid I objected to. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=123) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=125)