# Obvious things about a creative work you realize after the millionth time (OPEN SPOILERS POSSIBLE) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 24, 2009, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117 "2009-07-24T13:20:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 126
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2016, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2501 "2016-05-30T14:26:14Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > … And about ten years earlier, I had suddenly realized why there were all those rooms at the top of the stairs in the Longbranch Saloon on _ **Gunsmoke** _. 🆒 Ah, that moment when fond childhood memories are … _sullied_ 😛 😃 ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2016, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2502 "2016-05-30T15:32:28Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > Ah, that moment when fond childhood memories are … _sullied_ 😛 > 😃 I remember watching _ **Gunsmoke** _ with my dad when I was around four years old. Even then I had a “thing” for Miss Kitty in her high heels. Mmmmmmmmmm…! :o ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2016, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2503 "2016-05-30T20:46:01Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > One more: > > I’m editing an article on carbon nanotubes. Apparently, the favored abbreviation is CNTs. :o Shakepeare’s reference in Twelfth Night to “Her Cs, her Us, and her Ts, where she makes her great Ps” managed to escape my sister; I had the joy of explaining it to her. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2016, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2504 "2016-05-30T21:39:08Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > I was born in 1955, but it wasn’t until I was in, oh, maybe my late 30s when it finally dawned on me why Paladin had that chess piece (a freakin’ **KNIGHT** ) on his holster! \*\*DUH! \*\* :smack: I always thought Paladin’s first name was Wire. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2016, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2505 "2016-05-30T21:43:03Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Shakepeare’s reference in Twelfth Night to “Her Cs, her Us, and her Ts, where she makes her great Ps” managed to escape my sister; I had the joy of explaining it to her. Catherine of Valois’s French passage in “Henry V” in which she complains about how dirty the English language is … “foot and gown”, she pronounces like “foutre” (fuck) and “Coun” (cunt) ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2016, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2506 "2016-05-30T23:34:16Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Catherine of Valois’s French passage in “Henry V” in which she complains about how dirty the English language is … “foot and gown”, she pronounces like “foutre” (fuck) and “Coun” (cunt) Keen! That one, I’d never heard of! I’ve seen the scene, but nobody explained the joke. Jakesbeer was a dirty old man! ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2507 "2016-05-31T04:38:16Z")
On YouTube, there’s a _ **WoF** _ clip (I don’t have time to look for it now) where the phrase was C \_ U N T \_ \_ M U S I C. If Pat and Vanna noticed it, they didn’t say anything, but I believe there was an, uhm, “titter” from the audience. 😃 (I’m reminded of the joke in which “a nervous titter ran through the courtroom…” :o ) ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2016, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2508 "2016-06-01T20:58:33Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Keen! That one, I’d never heard of! I’ve seen the scene, but nobody explained the joke. > > Jakesbeer was a dirty old man! There was also a line about standing under and understanding. Our high school English teacher was normally into Chaucer but thoroughly enjoyed Shakespeare also. Though he did let us read the unexpurgated version of Chaucer. We all loved the one about the monks dividing a fart equally =) Ah, highschool…😃 ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2509 "2016-06-04T17:37:12Z")
Another “American Pie” one: Eight miles high and falling fast/It landed foul on the grass" followed by “The halftime air was sweet perfume” I don’t think McLean was referring to Channel No. 5. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2510 "2016-06-04T19:04:25Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Another “American Pie” one: Eight miles high and falling fast/It landed foul on the grass" followed by “The halftime air was sweet perfume” > > I don’t think McLean was referring to Channel No. 5. Well, mebbe, but most folks I think see “Eight miles high and falling fast” as a reference to the Byrds’ “Eight Miles High”. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2511 "2016-06-06T02:51:24Z")
In [the recent Geico ad with the check-dodging alligator](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f95abQuPXaw), I missed the opening seconds where it establishes he’s in a Chinese restaurant. Also, the fact he chows down on an entire duck at the end seems to be a shot at the spokesbird for Geico’s competitor, AFLAC. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2512 "2016-06-06T13:14:33Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > Well, mebbe, but most folks I think see “Eight miles high and falling fast” as a reference to the Byrds’ “Eight Miles High”. “Eight Miles High” was banned by some radio stations for being about “drug use.” The “sweet perfume” is obviously marijuana’s distinctive odor. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2513 "2016-06-06T17:26:35Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > Well, mebbe, but most folks I think see “Eight miles high and falling fast” as a reference to the Byrds’ “Eight Miles High”. I thought it was a reference to Eminem. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2514 "2016-06-06T19:29:08Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > “Eight Miles High” was banned by some radio stations for being about “drug use.” The “sweet perfume” is obviously marijuana’s distinctive odor. There are only a few thing in American Pie which are actually confirmed: Buddy Holly, Elvis, Dylan (The jester). The rest is just supposition and not obvious. > **[What is Don McLean’s song “American Pie” all about?](https://www.straightdope.com/21342063/what-is-don-mclean-s-song-american-pie-all-about)** ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2515 "2016-06-07T12:55:11Z")
In Brazil, Ian Holmes character injured his hand and had to get his underling to sign an authorization for him. I totally missed that he was faking the injury so that he could claim that Jonathan Pryce forged the authorization if necessary. I didn’t spot this until one time I watched it and during Pryces arrest one of the charges recited against him was forging a supervisors signature. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2516 "2016-07-07T02:42:41Z")
I’ll add two from one of my favorite movies, Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. I’ve seen it more than almost any movie. I’ve watched it in HD only 2-3 times, though. HD and a large television helped me notice: 1. When Indy’s Dad reads the newspaper(and hides behind it) on the blimp, he is holding it upside down. It isn’t as obvious as you might think, but the HD copy I watched is clear enough to notice. 2. My wife pointed this out to me, though I missed it. Elsa _intentionally_ sends Donovan to the wrong grail. As a kid and most of my adult life, I didn’t realize that she intentionally picked a gold one because she knew it was wrong. You can see her nod “no” to Indy. This was likely cut off on all VHS pan-and-scan copies. Yep, two things it took me forever to notice. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2016, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2517 "2016-07-08T19:56:57Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > 1. My wife pointed this out to me, though I missed it. Elsa _intentionally_ sends Donovan to the wrong grail. As a kid and most of my adult life, I didn’t realize that she intentionally picked a gold one because she knew it was wrong. You can see her nod “no” to Indy. This was likely cut off on all VHS pan-and-scan copies. Hm. I can’t decide if I agree with this. Video is here: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VA7J0KkanzM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VA7J0KkanzM) starting at about :30 in. She definitely moves her head back and forth a little bit. It’s also a bit of a continuity error, as after the cut to just her, she turns her head to look at Indy, again. I’m not sure if that was intended as a “no” or not. You’d think that if it was, we’d see something like that in her expression when she’s the focal part of the shot, not just in the previous shot where she’s barely seen at all. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2016, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2518 "2016-07-08T22:54:39Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > 1. When Indy’s Dad reads the newspaper(and hides behind it) on the blimp, he is holding it upside down. **[VOICE OF GRAHAM CHAPMAN (GERMAN ACCENT)]:** A Zeppelin iss not a blimp! :mad: ---
**Author:** ![JKilez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e5b9ba/32.png) [@JKilez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKilez)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2016, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2519 "2016-07-09T13:33:34Z")
> [@JSexton](#): > > Hm. I can’t decide if I agree with this. Video is here: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VA7J0KkanzM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VA7J0KkanzM) starting at about :30 in. She definitely moves her head back and forth a little bit. It’s also a bit of a continuity error, as after the cut to just her, she turns her head to look at Indy, again. I’m not sure if that was intended as a “no” or not. You’d think that if it was, we’d see something like that in her expression when she’s the focal part of the shot, not just in the previous shot where she’s barely seen at all. I never noticed the “no” head shake before either, but it certainly is consistent with her mannerisms and reactions in the rest of the scene. My guess would be that they wanted the following scene of Donovan drinking from the grail to be a surprise, and focusing on her head shaking would have been too much of a tip-off. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2016, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/2520 "2016-07-09T19:49:43Z")
> [@JKilez](#): > > I never noticed the “no” head shake before either, but it certainly is consistent with her mannerisms and reactions in the rest of the scene. My guess would be that they wanted the following scene of Donovan drinking from the grail to be a surprise, and focusing on her head shaking would have been too much of a tip-off. Storywise, Elsa had to know that was the wrong chalice. She’s a historian or archaeologist, and the Reich’s leading authority on the grail, but anyone with just a passing familiarity with the story of Jesus and the Last Supper would realize that Jesus did not have tons and tons of gold just lying around when he was alive. Given her background, Ilsa picking that chalice _had_ to be a set up for Donovan. As filmed, I’d say that shot where Ilsa turns and looks at Indy, right after the “head shake,” is meant to be significant. I think that’s Ilsa letting Indy know that she’s just doublecrossed Donovan. I wonder if, when they shot Donovan taking the cup, the idea had been for Ilsa to turn and shake her head at Indy, and that take made it to the final print, but when they did the medium shot of her, they decided it didn’t look right, like maybe it read as her rejecting Indy, so they changed it to just a knowing glance. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=125) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=127)