# Obvious things about a creative work you realize after the millionth time (OPEN SPOILERS POSSIBLE) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 24, 2009, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117 "2009-07-24T13:20:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 185
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2020, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3683 "2020-05-27T00:45:38Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > “Season 8 _Game of Thrones_ is no _Godfather_” would also have been an acceptable response. From what I’ve heard, Season 8 Game of Thrones wasn’t even Season 4 Sopranos. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2020, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3684 "2020-05-27T13:08:27Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > [I’ll just leave this here.](https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/M2xQxewdk_-tlXAM3qTcsrUq4hk=/1400x1050/filters:format(png)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/16217106/got_pip_starbucks.png) C’mon **Miller**! This is a thread about Obvious Things in creative works, but some things are just beyond obvious. Are you really telling me that you don’t understand what that Starbucks cup says about Daenerys? Sheesh! > [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I like to think of it as deliberate foreshadowing. Whenever oranges appear in _The Godfather_, it’s a indication that somebody is about to die. I believe the ketchup was meant to foretell the death of a horse. Had there been more horse deaths in the movie, no doubt there would have been ketchup preceding each one. Working on your dissertation, I see. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2020, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3685 "2020-05-27T14:15:26Z")
Just realized that the insignia of the U.S. Astronautics Agency in _2001: A Space Odyssey_ has a sun and nine stars - the nine stars presumably representing the nine planets (as there were acknowledged to be at the time the movie was made): > **[USAA Discovery Base Logo 3.5" Patch - SciFi Geeks](https://www.scifigeeks.com/shop/spaceodyssey/usaa-discovery-base-logo-3-5-patch/)** > > Embroidered Patch 100% Embroidered The Best Collectible Patches You will Find! Iron-On Backing FREE Standard Shipping > **[American actor Gary Lockwood as astronaut Frank Poole in the science...](https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/american-actor-gary-lockwood-as-astronaut-frank-poole-in-news-photo/686453393)** > > American actor Gary Lockwood as astronaut Frank Poole in the science fiction film '2001: A Space Odyssey', 1968. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2020, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3686 "2020-05-27T19:57:03Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Just realized that the insignia of the U.S. Astronautics Agency in _2001: A Space Odyssey_ has a sun and nine stars - the nine stars presumably representing the nine planets (as there were acknowledged to be at the time the movie was made): > > [USAA Discovery Base Logo 3.5" Patch - SciFi Geeks](https://www.scifigeeks.com/shop/spaceodyssey/usaa-discovery-base-logo-3-5-patch/) > [American actor Gary Lockwood as astronaut Frank Poole in the science... News Photo - Getty Images](https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/american-actor-gary-lockwood-as-astronaut-frank-poole-in-news-photo/686453393) Meh, they will go back and forth on this. They need to come up with a size requirement for moon, certainly, otherwise every baseball sized rock is a “moon”. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2020, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3687 "2020-05-28T03:12:47Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > Possible, but unlikely. One thing I have learned from listening to professional filmmakers (including top-level crew members like cinematographers, production designers, costume designers, composers, etc.) is that almost \*nothing \*appears in any frame of a film by accident. They have selected every camera angle, every prop, every color, every note, _everything_ for how it helps tell the story, what it says about the characters, the situation, and so on. If you asked Dean Tavoularis, the production designer on _The Godfather_, why he chose, say, the salt and pepper shakers on the table in that scene, he could probably tell you that they were historically accurate to the time and place, and a few other details that you and I would never have guessed about them. > > The vast majority of these tiny decisions are never consciously noticed by the vast majority of viewers, but collectively they have an impact on the final production. (Or maybe they merely justify the big salaries these people are paid, and help film students write Ph.D dissertations. :D) > > Oh, and another possibility that we haven’t brought up: maybe Heinz paid for the product placement. I apologize for the partial thread derail on this, but… I talked to a friend of mine who’s been in the industry for over 20 years (assistant director and production manager). He said he’s not familiar with that scene in particular, but he thought it was more likely than not that the ketchup bottle was a deliberate choice, since it doesn’t really seem to fit in with the rest of the aesthetics of the set as described, but it’s also possible it was just something a set dresser put in there with no deeper meaning intended. According to him, both situations are common occurrences. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2020, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3688 "2020-05-28T03:17:41Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Meh, they will go back and forth on this. > > They need to come up with a size requirement for moon, certainly, otherwise every baseball sized rock is a “moon”. Read Neil DeGrasse Tyson’s _The Pluto Files_. He makes a case against Pluto that’s hard to refute. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2020, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3689 "2020-05-28T07:15:03Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > It could also be that Coppola used the Heinz bottle on the table to signify that Woltz is nouveau riche, because as Miss Manners would have explained, having any product (other than wine) on the dinner table in its original packaging is just _not done_. But having the ketchup in a silver salver, as Miss Manners might have recommended, wouldn’t have highlighted Woltz’s working-class tastes. So even though there were no posh ketchups available at the time, the Heinz bottle serves the filmmaker’s intent of commenting on the character, as **longhair75** suggests. Agreed - having the ketchup there at all is a subtle sign, very well done. The brand probably helps with the recognition of what the item is too. I was only responding to the OP’s topic, really. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3690 "2020-05-29T12:28:46Z")
As I’ve mentioned in the Recently Seen Movies thread, I re-watched _Yellow Submarine_ a few nights ago. This time I took advantage of the “captions On” feature so I could maybe catch some of the asides that had passed me by on previous viewings. As I mentioned, I did find that at one point “John Lennon” makes a remark about being the “Ego Man” that I hadn’t caught before. Well, that was sort of buried in the background, but there was one other bit of punning that was right out in the open that I missed every other time I saw the film. It’s near the very beginning, when The Captain has accompanied Ringo into the Beatle Mansion, and they’re looking for the other three. They open a door, and there, strapped down on an operating table, they see… Captain: Frankenstein! Ringo: Yeah. I dated his sister. Captain His _sister?_ Ringo: Yeah…Phyllis. To my credit, I understood this one the first time I saw the film, as a kid. If you look at “Frankenstein” as “Frank N. Stein”, then his sister would be “Phyllis Stein” = “Philistine”. That’s clever. But until this week, I missed the pun in the next exchange. There’s a big lever next to the comatose Frankenstein, and The Captain cautions Ringo: Captain: Don’t pull that ever! Ringo: Can’t help it. I’m a born Lever Puller. It had completely escaped me that you could read that as “I’m a born Liverpooler.” Ringo was, of course, one of the Lads from Liverpool. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3691 "2020-05-29T18:46:58Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > I apologize for the partial thread derail on this, but… > > I talked to a friend of mine who’s been in the industry for over 20 years (assistant director and production manager). He said he’s not familiar with that scene in particular, but he thought it was more likely than not that the ketchup bottle was a deliberate choice, since it doesn’t really seem to fit in with the rest of the aesthetics of the set as described, but it’s also possible it was just something a set dresser put in there with no deeper meaning intended. According to him, both situations are common occurrences. There’s a documentary about the making of _The Shining_ that discusses the meanings of all of the small details in the sets of that film. I read a commentary on the documentary where somebody essentially said “Let’s not read too much into these details. Some of them were probably just random stuff that had no deeper meaning.” And another person said “That might be true on most movies. But it’s not true in a Stanley Kubrick movie.” ---
**Author:** ![Paintcharge](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paintcharge/32/7946_2.png) [@Paintcharge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paintcharge)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3692 "2020-05-29T20:06:51Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > As I’ve mentioned in the Recently Seen Movies thread, I re-watched _Yellow Submarine_ a few nights ago. This time I took advantage of the “captions On” feature so I could maybe catch some of the asides that had passed me by on previous viewings. As I mentioned, I did find that at one point “John Lennon” makes a remark about being the “Ego Man” that I hadn’t caught before. > > Well, that was sort of buried in the background, but there was one other bit of punning that was right out in the open that I missed every other time I saw the film. > > It’s near the very beginning, when The Captain has accompanied Ringo into the Beatle Mansion, and they’re looking for the other three. They open a door, and there, strapped down on an operating table, they see… > > Captain: Frankenstein! > > Ringo: Yeah. I dated his sister. > > Captain His _sister?_ > > Ringo: Yeah…Phyllis. > To my credit, I understood this one the first time I saw the film, as a kid. If you look at “Frankenstein” as “Frank N. Stein”, then his sister would be “Phyllis Stein” = “Philistine”. > > That’s clever. But until this week, I missed the pun in the next exchange. There’s a big lever next to the comatose Frankenstein, and The Captain cautions Ringo: > > Captain: Don’t pull that ever! > > Ringo: Can’t help it. I’m a born Lever Puller. > > It had completely escaped me that you could read that as “I’m a born Liverpooler.” > Ringo was, of course, one of the Lads from Liverpool. I think I posted that exact same thing a while ago. I know I intended to. Would have been over 3 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3693 "2020-05-29T20:39:52Z")
Isn’t a person from Liverpool a Liverpuddlian? ---
**Author:** ![Paintcharge](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paintcharge/32/7946_2.png) [@Paintcharge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paintcharge)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3694 "2020-05-29T20:49:06Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Isn’t a person from Liverpool a Liverpuddlian? Well, yes. But apparently in German it is Liverpooler, and they spent a bunch of time in Germany. Found my post. It was 2013! Can’t believe I remembered that. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3695 "2020-05-31T14:50:06Z")
I was listening to the Pentecost reading today, which mentions that the apostles “were all together in one place” - which sounded awfully familiar; I wonder if that was in the back of Don McLean’s mind when he wrote “Oh, and there we were all in one place” ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blue_blistering_barnacle/32/3386_2.png) [@Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blue_Blistering_Barnacle)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2020, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3696 "2020-06-03T18:55:31Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > I was listening to the Pentecost reading today, which mentions that the apostles “were all together in one place” - which sounded awfully familiar; I wonder if that was in the back of Don McLean’s mind when he wrote > “Oh, and there we were all in one place” I read your post a day or so ago. Nice observation. This song is just playing for me now on Pandora, so the line stuck out for me. As I heard it, I found that I’d always thought that he wrote that to make the rhyme for “A generation lost in space” (a line that resonated for me as a childhood lover of “Lost in Space”). Now I don’t know what to think, which line is primary (more important). I guess the poet would say they are both primary (“all the best words in the best order”). Don McLean was certainly a lyrical genius. ---
**Author:** ![dorvann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df705f/32.png) [@dorvann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorvann)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2020, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3697 "2020-06-07T20:11:32Z")
It took me 25 years to realize that WCW named their wrestling show “Monday Nitro” because it was a close homophone to their competitor WWF’s “Monday Night Raw”. In my defense I usually only referred to both shows as “Nitro” and “Raw” ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3698 "2020-06-11T03:38:05Z")
Not so much a thing I just realized but a thing I’ve just noticed. I’m rewatching _The Hunt for Red October_, and I’ve just noticed that at the beginning of the movie, there’s a roll of toilet paper on a toilet paper hanger in the sonar area of the _Dallas_. What? **Why?** ETA: Posted this on my FB. It’s to wipe the wax lines off the screen when they’re done plotting a track. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3699 "2020-06-11T03:45:40Z")
> [@Morgyn](#): > > Not so much a thing I just realized but a thing I’ve just noticed. > > I’m rewatching _The Hunt for Red October_, and I’ve just noticed that at the beginning of the movie, there’s a roll of toilet paper on a toilet paper hanger in the sonar area of the _Dallas_. > > What? **Why?** > > ETA: Posted this on my FB. It’s to wipe the wax lines off the screen when they’re done plotting a track. And too late to add, but I believe the answer was provided by **Jonathan Chance**. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2020, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3700 "2020-06-15T17:48:11Z")
Not my millionth time, but my second time running through Community, so I’m going to catch a lot of stuff I missed the first time. In the last episode I watched, where Abed is showing everyone how they were all interconnected before they met in college, he showed a picture of Britta, with Jeff in the background, at city hall. When they cut to the scene, if you look on the wall, you’ll see that Annie has been the Greenfield Citizen of the Year several years in a row. Also, and I’m curious if this was planned from the beginning or if the writers came up with it during when the Changnesia thing first started, but the Mexican/Chi-Chi’s restaurant they go to is called Senor Kevin’s (as in Senor Chang, now called Kevin). I also don’t remember if they referred to the restaurant by name in the earlier episodes. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2020, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3701 "2020-06-17T12:11:17Z")
Some things I didn’t notice at first because I was too young – context came later, when I learned things. For instance, I was too young to see the Walt Disney series _Davy Crockett_ . It was literally broadcast on the TV series _Disneyland_ before I was even born, so I missed not only the series, but the coonskin caps and other paraphernalia. But when I was growing up I definitely saw the 1964-1970 series _Daniel Boone_, which also starred Fess Parker (who had been Davy Crockett) as Boone. Most Americans, I think, had trouble telling them apart even before Parker played both of them. But there’s no doubt that they chose him for the role of Boone because he’s played Crockett. (He also played “Davy Crockett” in the 1959 movie _Alias Jesse James_). Similarly, I’m convinced the Buddy Ebsen got the role of Jed Clampett in _The Beverly Hillbillies_ because of his role as George Russel in _Davy Crockett_. But there’s no way I would’ve known that at the time (although it would’ve been obvious to adults who had seen both series). In that same vein, I just realized that the three stars of Disney’s 1954 movie _20,000 Leagues Under the Sea_ went on to play major roles in other Jules Verne adaptations. There hadn’t been many Verne adaptations before the Disney film – most of them had been either silent films or bastardizations like the 1929 _Mysterious Island_ that really had little to do with Verne. The Disney film really sort of opened the floodgates – Hollywood has a deep respect for works in the public domain. So through the 1950s and 1960s there were adaptations of works not only of Verne, but of Edgar Allan Poe and H.G. Wells\*. Roger Corman’s Poe adaptations frequently starred Vincent Price, who already had a reputation for weird cinema. But Corman wasn’t the only one to use Price in Poe – he was also in the British adaptation of _The Oblong Box_. In any event, James Mason, who played Captain Nemo, also showed up as Professor Lindenbrock in _A Journey to the Center of the Earth_ (and was excellent in it, although for some reason they changed his nationality from German to Scottish). They also wanted him to reprise his role as Captain Nemo for Harryhausen’s _Mysterious Island_, but he turned them down (so they got Herbert Lom). Kirk Douglas, who played Ned Land in 20,000 Leagues, went on to star in the more obscure Verne work _The Light at the Edge of the World_ (1971) with Yul Brynner and Samantha Eggar. Peter Lorre got the most Verne films. Besides 20,000 Leagues, he was also in 1962’s _Five Weeks in a Balloon_ and was in _Around the World in Eighty Days_ (I was going to say “like everyone else,” but neither Douglas not Mason were in that star-laden movie) ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2020, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3702 "2020-06-17T12:17:17Z")
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