# Obvious things about a creative work you realize after the millionth time (OPEN SPOILERS POSSIBLE) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 24, 2009, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117 "2009-07-24T13:20:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![dada](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@dada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dada)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/361 "2009-08-07T18:46:13Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > When I was a kid, I devoured the Narnia books multiple times in a row. > > In _The voyage of the Dawn Treader_ there’s a section from Eustace’s diary where Lucy gives him some of her scant water ration explaining “girls don’t get as thirsty as boys.”. To which his response is that he always thought as much and that this sort of thing “ought to be more generally known”. > > So it was about 3 or 4 years of me mentally shouting at the book “Yes We Do you silly bint!” before I realised - duh - _she was lying to make him feel better_, and he was so clueless that it was a completely wasted effort, since he was selfish enough to have taken it even if he DID realise she was as thirsty as him I spent 3 or 4 minutes chastizing Eustace for being such a selfish prick and the rest of my life wondering if I could ever be as gracious as Lucy. Until a year ago, I thought Edwin Mccain was singing “I’ll be your crying soldier”… “crying shoulder” makes much more sense. DUH. ---
**Author:** ![kelly5078](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/6f9a4e/32.png) [@kelly5078](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kelly5078)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/362 "2009-08-07T19:53:39Z")
I can’t see the Cowardly Lion as gay. He’s certainly a bit effeminate, but I’ve always thought the Scarecrow to be considerably more so. Also, the CL is well within Bert Lahr’s usual shtick, and he wasn’t gay. I’m also not convinced by a gay audience seeing the character as gay. People see lots of things they want to see, whether they’re there or not. ---
**Author:** ![Markle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a183cd/32.png) [@Markle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markle)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/363 "2009-08-07T21:09:53Z")
After years of listening to the Squeeze song “Tempted”, I started to think “Hey, you know, I think they’re pretending to be the Temptations”. And then I realized why the song is called “Tempted”. :smack: (Oh, and here’s an obscure one:) The late, great Kevin Gilbert has an album called “The Shaming of the True”. It took me years to figure out that it was a play on “The Taming of the Shrew”. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2009, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/364 "2009-08-08T00:25:39Z")
> [@kelly5078](#): > > I can’t see the Cowardly Lion as gay. He’s certainly a bit effeminate, but I’ve always thought the Scarecrow to be considerably more so. Also, the CL is well within Bert Lahr’s usual shtick, and he wasn’t gay. > > I’m also not convinced by a gay audience seeing the character as gay. People see lots of things they want to see, whether they’re there or not. I’m not gay, but I always – well, not _always_; not until I was close to adulthood – thought of the Cowardly Lion as “movie gay for the time,” like Edward Everett Horton. Kind of a sissy type that was movie code for gay way back when. ---
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/365 "2009-08-08T04:09:52Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > I’m not gay, but I always – well, not _always_; not until I was close to adulthood – thought of the Cowardly Lion as “movie gay for the time,” like Edward Everett Horton. Kind of a sissy type that was movie code for gay way back when. Okay, so in this whole Cowardly Lion-gay debate…is it arguable that he’s an early _positive_ gay character..? Because when he’s first introduced he’s trying to deny his sissy nature, but by the time they all get to Oz, he’s straight up putting bows in his hair! So is the point of his story that he learned to embrace being a sissy/being gay? Or am I misremembering the movie? ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2009, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/366 "2009-08-08T04:38:12Z")
> [@Rodgers01](#): > > Okay, so in this whole Cowardly Lion-gay debate…is it arguable that he’s an early _positive_ gay character..? There is an argument to be made there, yes. Although the character embodies a lot of offensive stereotypes about gay men, his friends always accept him and in the end it’s clear that although he seemed like a “sissy” he really was brave all along. > [@](#): > > \*Because when he’s first introduced he’s trying to deny his sissy nature, but by the time they all get to Oz, he’s straight up putting bows in his hair! So is the point of his story that he learned to embrace being a sissy/being gay? Or am I misremembering the movie? \*You may be misremembering, because at that point they still hadn’t met the Wizard yet. The Cowardly Lion openly admitted that he was “born to be a sissy” and did not see any way to change unless he could magically be given more “nerve”. He still wanted the Wizard’s help with this after going for matching makeovers with Dorothy, so he clearly hadn’t learned to fully accept himself. He enjoyed getting his hair done, but he still wanted to become “King of the Forest, not queen”. ---
**Author:** ![Second\_Star\_to\_the\_Right](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3bc359/32.png) [@Second\_Star\_to\_the\_Right](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Second_Star_to_the_Right)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2009, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/367 "2009-08-08T05:56:16Z")
It took me a few times seeing _Dirty Dancing_ to get the Judy Garland reference.(extra sad because I’m a big fan of Judy) the reference: Jennifer Grey’s character in DD is named Frances, but everyone calls her Baby. Judy Garland was born Frances Gumm, but until she took the name Judy Garland, everyone called her Baby. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2009, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/368 "2009-08-08T14:23:03Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > I googled the lyrics and re-read them (has anyone else noticed how often lyrics Web sites are wrong?). I don’t get it. It doesn’t make sense with the riders being the Joker and the Thief. What makes you think they are? What does the song _mean_ if they are? The lyrics make little enough sense as it is… That’s the genius of the song. The lyrics don’t literally make sense, and yet somehow they’re still tremendously evocative. Like they’re talking about a dream which described literally would just be a random collage of images and yet which seems extremely meaningful somehow. ---
**Author:** ![Chanteuse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de053/32.png) [@Chanteuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chanteuse)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/369 "2009-08-09T12:09:59Z")
I posted this a long time ago, but it was only after I myself called someone “fark-wad” that I realized that this is what the evil lord in Shrek was actually named. It seems so obvious NOW, but I never made the connection because of the way it the syllables were pronounced (Far-Quaad, rather than Farq-uaad). It was a real :smack: moment for me! ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/370 "2009-08-09T15:10:37Z")
> [@Chanteuse](#): > > I posted this a long time ago, but it was only after I myself called someone “fark-wad” that I realized that this is what the evil lord in Shrek was actually named. It seems so obvious NOW, but I never made the connection because of the way it the syllables were pronounced (Far-Quaad, rather than Farq-uaad). It was a real :smack: moment for me! I don’t understand. Is “fark-wad” an actual word, phrase, or insult? ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/371 "2009-08-09T16:53:36Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > I don’t understand. Is “fark-wad” an actual word, phrase, or insult? That’s what I wondered, too. I thought Farquad was meant to sound something like fuckwad. ---
**Author:** ![Chanteuse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de053/32.png) [@Chanteuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chanteuse)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/372 "2009-08-09T17:44:26Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > That’s what I wondered, too. I thought Farquad was meant to sound something like fuckwad. Exactly–I used the insult “farkwad” euphemistically, and that’s when I understood what his name referred to. ---
**Author:** ![Rich1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e56c9b/32.png) [@Rich1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rich1)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/373 "2009-08-09T18:21:38Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > It took me years to realize that “Brown Eyed Girl” was actually about anal sex. I listened to this song for decades and could never figure out where he and his “girl” were going with the “old man with a transistor radio.” Finally I Googled the lyrics, only to discover that he was going down an old “mine!” Van, who probably has adenoids the size of golf balls, was never the easiest guy to understand, but that mine shaft certainly makes more sense within the anal context. The transistor radio though…ouch! Sounds painful! ---
**Author:** ![ovalseven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbce88/32.png) [@ovalseven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ovalseven)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/374 "2009-08-10T04:44:47Z")
I watched the movie “Strange Brew” countless times before I realized the story was based on Hamlet. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/375 "2009-08-10T15:13:26Z")
> [@Electric\_Warrior](#): > > Especially because the Beatles are from the UK, where ‘fag’ is not slang for ‘gay man’. Seconded,if at that time Lennon had sang rich,fag,Jew,he would have been singing “You’re a rich cigarette,Jew” which would have made no sense . While nowadays many Brits would understand what an American means when they say fag,then particulary a fag was and is a cigarette,no Brit would use it to mean homosexual because any British listener including Epstein would draw the tobacco related inference. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/376 "2009-08-10T15:53:14Z")
> [@Markle](#): > > After years of listening to the Squeeze song “Tempted”, I started to think “Hey, you know, I think they’re pretending to be the Temptations”. > > And then I realized why the song is called “Tempted”. In what way are they pretending to be the Temptations? ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/377 "2009-08-10T16:53:57Z")
> [@statsman1982](#): > > The first is the jingle at the end of Kay Jewelers ads–“Every kiss begins with Kay.” I never realized until this past Christmas that they were trying to make a play on words: The letter “K” is spelled “kay” phonetically. Which makes Jay Bee Jewelers just that much more obvious. ---
**Author:** ![Markle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a183cd/32.png) [@Markle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markle)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/378 "2009-08-10T17:21:30Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > In what way are they pretending to be the Temptations? Well, the general style of the song, for one. It’s kind of different from other Squeeze songs but very similar to Temptations songs. But the clincher is when they they have various voices take a line of the song. See for example the part that goes “The people keep on crowding, I’m wishing I was well” with the first line song by the bass and the next by the tenor. Very similar to things the Temptations do in songs like “I Can’t Get Next To You”. ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanub/32/132_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUB)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/379 "2009-08-10T18:27:59Z")
> [@Markle](#): > > Well, the general style of the song, for one. It’s kind of different from other Squeeze songs but very similar to Temptations songs. > > But the clincher is when they they have various voices take a line of the song. See for example the part that goes “The people keep on crowding, I’m wishing I was well” with the first line song by the bass and the next by the tenor. > > Very similar to things the Temptations do in songs like “I Can’t Get Next To You”. Funny (or stupidly) enough, when I read the original post I thought “wow, I never noticed that but it’s true, they are kind of singing like the Temptations” but in my mind’s ear I was hearing “Black Coffee in Bed” ( . . .black black black coffee in bed") :smack: ---
**Author:** ![rivulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/839c29/32.png) [@rivulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rivulus)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/380 "2009-08-10T21:36:03Z")
At the risk of opening a can of worms… let’s get back to Rosemary and the Anti-Christ. There may, in fact, be some significance to the name. It has to do with Mary (as in Magdalene), the Merovingians, the Rosicrucians (the Rosy Cross folks, hence the rose), and the bloodline of the false Christ. Put on your tinfoil hat, and [enjoy](http://watch.pair.com/merovingian.html)! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=20)