# Obvious things about a creative work you realize after the millionth time (OPEN SPOILERS POSSIBLE) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 24, 2009, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117 "2009-07-24T13:20:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 190
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2020, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3783 "2020-11-16T03:42:20Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > It’s possible, although it’s never explicit, that she is the woman that Renault is going to see after Victor and Ilsa leave his office, where, of course, he propositions her in the way that comes out later that night at Rick’s. Oh, she definitely is. Immediately after her husband wins big at the roulette table (with Rick’s connivance), Renault chides Rick for ruining his plans. He very clearly had meant to extort sexual favors from the wife in exchange for the visas. ---
**Author:** ![WildaBeast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wildabeast/32/6_2.png) [@WildaBeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildaBeast)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2020, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3784 "2020-11-16T04:39:49Z")
The animated show _Bless the Harts_ is set in the fictional town of Greenpoint, North Carolina. I only just realized that the name of the town is a mash up of the two real NC cities of Greensboro and High Point. They have even mentioned on the show before that the town is in the Greensboro-High Point metro area. I even grew up in NC. I don’t know why I didn’t notice that sooner. ---
**Author:** ![Paintcharge](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paintcharge/32/7946_2.png) [@Paintcharge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paintcharge)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2020, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3785 "2020-11-16T04:49:39Z")
That show was such a collosal piece of crap that you are excused from recognising that. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2020, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3786 "2020-11-16T09:09:47Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > > [@CalMeacham](#): > > > > It was in late antiquity that some clever person shrewdly realized that Perseus was already carrying the thermonuclear device of the day,… > > Man, if someone in antiquity (even late antiquity) figured out that, they must have been very clever indeed. Your basic nuke back in the good old classical days was the _brahmashira astra_. However, it was not a go-to weapon most of the time, even against monsters, because if you used it against less than a god, or if you missed and hit the ground or something, it could destroy the whole world. > [@](#): > > Vaishampayana said, "At the very outset the mighty-armed hero of Dasharha’s race understood from signs the intention of Drona’s son. Addressing Arjuna, he said, ‘O Arjuna, O son of Pandu, the time is come for the use of that celestial weapon which is in thy memory, knowledge of which was imparted to thee by Drona. For protecting thyself as also thy brothers, O Bharata, shoot in this battle that weapon which is capable of neutralising all weapons.’ > > Thus addressed by Keshava, Arjuna, that slayer of hostile heroes, quickly alighted from the car, taking with him his bow with shaft fixed on the string. Softly wishing good unto the preceptor’s son and then unto himself, and unto all his brothers, that scorcher of foes then bowed unto all the gods and all his superiors and let off his weapon, thinking of the welfare of all the worlds and uttering the words, ‘Let Ashvatthama’s weapon be neutralised by this weapon!’ > > That weapon, quickly let off by the wielder of _gandiva,_ blazed up with fierce flames like the all-destroying fire that appears at the end of the _yuga._ Similarly, the weapon that had been shot by Drona’s son of fierce energy blazed up with terrible flames within a huge sphere of fire. Numerous peals of thunder were heard; thousands of meteors fell; and all living creatures became inspired with great dread. The entire welkin seemed to be filled with noise and assumed a terrible aspect with those flames of fire. The whole earth with her mountains and waters and trees, trembled. Then the two great _rishis,_ Narada, who is the soul of every creature, and the grandsire of all the Bharata princes (Vyasa), beholding those two weapons scorching the three worlds, showed themselves there. The two _rishis_ sought to pacify the two heroes Ashvatthama and Dhananjaya. Conversant with all duties and desirous of the welfare of all creatures, the two sages, possessed of great energy, stood in the midst of those two blazing weapons. Incapable of being overwhelmed by any force, those two illustrious _rishis,_ placing themselves between the two weapons, stood like two blazing fires. Incapable of being checked by any creature endued with life, and adorned by the gods and _danavas,_ they two acted in this way, neutralising the energy of the two weapons and doing good to all the world. > > The two _rishis_ said, “Those great car-warriors who have fallen in this battle were acquainted with diverse kinds of weapons. They, however, never shot such a weapon upon human beings. What act of rashness is this, ye heroes, that ye have done?” ---
**Author:** ![galen\_ubal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galen_ubal/32/4440_2.png) [@galen\_ubal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen_ubal)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2020, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3787 "2020-11-16T10:05:15Z")
In _Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade_, Indy and Elsa descend into the catacombs below a library in Venice. Think about this for a moment. Venice is built on water, basically. There _couldn’t_ be any catacombs below Venice that weren’t completely flooded. I blush to confess, this didn’t occur to me until I read the TVtropes article on it, as I was watching. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2020, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3788 "2020-11-16T13:31:30Z")
Some people clearly have the metaphor comprehension of Drax the Destroyer. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2020, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3789 "2020-11-16T13:50:40Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Except, goes the story, it remained as a rock in the harbor, blocking sea traffic.Being a Hero is never easy. I’ve been to that harbor plenty of times, and I can attest that there is no 3000-year-old giant stone monster blocking it up. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2020, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3790 "2020-11-16T14:00:37Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I’ve been to that harbor plenty of times, and I can attest that there is no 3000-year-old giant stone monster blocking it up. Which harbor? Although the movies set the attack by the sea monster in the harbor at Argos, the ancient story about it being petrified sets it in what is, I think, present-day Jaffa.(That’'s where Andromeda was princess, although other sources set her in different cities around the eastern Mediterranean). ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2020, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3791 "2020-11-16T14:08:04Z")
Jaffa Harbor. It’s about 2 miles from here. There’s a rock outcrop in the water known as “Andromeda’s rock”, which is where the legend says she was chained. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2020, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3792 "2020-11-16T14:09:33Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > What do you base this on? The lyrics are pretty generic and could apply to a daughter or a girlfriend. The story I’ve always heard is that Rose wrote the song about his then-girlfriend, Erin Everly (who appeared in the video). Rose doesn’t have a daughter. Ok, I grant you I don’t have a source. I grant you that Rose doesn’t have a daughter. I grant you that the internet is full of the story where Rose says he wrote it about his girlfriend. I guess Rose is just a creepy guy who refers to his love interest as “child o’ mine”, i.e. my child. However, I remain convinced I am smarter that Axl Rose, and that the song is actually a guy singing about his daughter. Just because Rose doesn’t realize that doesn’t make it false. 😏 ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2020, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3793 "2020-11-16T15:30:31Z")
I probably don’t want to know what your interpretation of Mac Davis’ “Baby Don’t Get Hooked on Me” is. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2020, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3794 "2020-11-16T15:39:57Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > There’s a rock outcrop in the water known as “Andromeda’s rock”, which is where the legend says she was chained. Found this picture of the rock online > **[Andromeda’s Rock - יפו העתיקה](https://www.oldjaffa.co.il/en/otherist-attractions/andromedas-rock/)** > > Greek mythology tells of the King of Jaffa – Cepheus, and his daughter Andromeda, who was reknowned for her great beauty. His wife, queen Cassiopeia, boasted that she and her daughter were more beautiful than the mermaids, provoking the ire of the... this pictures even less impressive > **[Andromeda's Rock - All You Need to Know BEFORE You Go (with Photos)](https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g293984-d558632-Reviews-Andromeda_s_Rock-Tel_Aviv_Tel_Aviv_District.html)** Fodor’s has this to say: > [@](#): > > From Kedumim Square, a number of large boulders can be seen out at sea not far from shore. Greek mythology says one of these (pick your own, everyone does) is where the people of Jaffa tied the virgin Andromeda in sacrifice to a sea monster to appease Poseidon, god of the sea. But the hero Perseus, riding the winged horse Pegasus, soared down from the sky to behead the monster, rescue Andromeda, and promptly marry her. > **[Andromeda's Rock Review - Tel Aviv Israel - Sights](https://www.fodors.com/world/africa-and-middle-east/israel/tel-aviv/things-to-do/sights/reviews/andromedas-rock-190388)** > > Everything you need to know about Tel Aviv from our travel experts. Possibly one of these is the same one spoken of in legend from thousands of years ago. In any event, the story told about a rock causing havoc in the harbor, and might have been written by someone who lived nowhere near there. Besides, as I note, other writers place Andromeda elsewhere. In the _Odyssey_ Poseidon is said to have punished the Phaeacians (who helped Odysseus, who Poseidon hated because he blinded his son) by turning a ship into stone and blocking the harbor. People have debated where Phaeacia was, with the top contender being Scheria on the island of Corfu. There is indeed an island (Pontikonisi) there that, if you squint, you might say was a petrified ship. But it’s not blocking the harbor. > **[Scheria](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scheria)** > > Scheria or Scherie (/ˈskɪəriə/; Ancient Greek: Σχερία or Σχερίη), also known as Phaeacia (/fiːˈeɪʃə/) or Faiakia, was a region in Greek mythology, first mentioned in Homer's Odyssey as the home of the Phaeacians and the last destination of Odysseus in his 10-year journey before returning home to Ithaca. It is one of the earliest descriptions of a utopia. > Before leaving Ogygia, Odysseus builds a raft and sails eastwards, instructed by Calypso to navigate using the stars as a celestial reference p... > **[Pontikonisi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontikonisi)** > > Pontikonisi (Greek: Ποντικονήσι, "Mouse Island") is a Greek islet near the island of Corfu. Its prominent feature is a Byzantine chapel of Pantokrator, dating from the 11th or 12th century. > In Homer's The Odyssey, Poseidon turns the Phaiákian Cutter that brought Odysseus to Ithaka into stone. This segment of the Epic is believed to have been based on this Island off the coast of Corfu.\[according to whom?\] > The island of Pontikonisi might have served as an inspiration for Arnold Böcklin's paintin... I think the Greeks were given to hyperbole. At least about harbor-blocking petrifications. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2020, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3795 "2020-11-16T20:04:43Z")
Obviously the petrified sea-monster has eroded over the years, especially long narrow features like tentacles and necks. And as you say, there are plenty of rocks in that harbor. So clearly, one of them is the one Andromeda was bound to, and one (or more) of the others is the remains of the monster. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2020, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3796 "2020-11-16T20:35:02Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Yeah, but it works better as a romantic line, imho. > > There aren’t very many good father/daughter songs, to be honest. My song for my daughter is ‘Your Song’ by Elton John which is also works better as a romantic lyric, but the (slightly modified) lines > > “… I hope you don’t mind, I hope you don’t mind > That I put down in words > How wonderful life is now you’re in the world” > > … is something I sung to her since she was a baby, so 🤷‍♂️ _My_ song for my daughter is one I wrote when she was approaching her first birthday. She was still nearly bald, so part of it goes: _I’ll always love you forever/Even if you never grow hair._ She did, ftr, and she hates when I sing the song in front of her friends. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2020, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3797 "2020-11-16T20:36:27Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > > [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > > > “The Monster Mash” by Bobby “Boris” Pickett is one of the all-time great novelty songs. But why the Mash? > > And what is the Monster Mash? The song is about the Monster Mash, but isn’t the Monster Mash itself. It’s just a story about it. Just like the Tennessee Waltz! ---
**Author:** ![johnspartan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a183cd/32.png) [@johnspartan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnspartan)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2020, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3798 "2020-11-17T22:58:26Z")
Andy Dufresne, the one and only innocent man who is sent to live among those who are universally guilty. He shares his simple message of hope and living a life not being condemned for your transgressions, but for looking forward to what lies beyond. He descends into the worst possible filth and somehow emerges on the other side washed clean, where he goes to a bright and beautiful place… there he waits for the condemned and forgiven to join him. Andy Dufresne is Jesus. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2020, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3799 "2020-11-17T23:20:07Z")
Religious allegory plays a big role in Stephen King’s corpus. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2020, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3800 "2020-11-17T23:57:46Z")
> [@johnspartan](#): > > Andy Dufresne, the one and only innocent man who is sent to live among those who are universally guilty. He shares his simple message of hope and living a life not being condemned for your transgressions, but for looking forward to what lies beyond. He descends into the worst possible filth and somehow emerges on the other side washed clean, where he goes to a bright and beautiful place… there he waits for the condemned and forgiven to join him. > > Andy Dufresne is Jesus. I hate when people refer to Morgan Freeman’s Red as a “magical black man”. Red was the film’s protagonist - _Andy_ was the “magical white man”, whose role in the story was to inspire and redeem the hero. ---
**Author:** ![Disheavel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@Disheavel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disheavel)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2020, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3801 "2020-11-18T00:12:58Z")
I just had this argument with my son a week ago… We see almost nothing from Andy’s perspective (prior to the mystery being solved) other than the music scene with the PA. And even then, Andy doesn’t say anything. Red’s story is the story arc here. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2020, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3802 "2020-11-18T05:49:45Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Oh, she definitely is. Immediately after her husband wins big at the roulette table (with Rick’s connivance), Renault chides Rick for ruining his plans. He very clearly had meant to extort sexual favors from the wife in exchange for the visas. Yes, but Renault obviously has similar arrangements with many women in such circumstances, so I believe it is only speculation, mostly based on timing, that she was the next one in the door after Victor and Ilsa left. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=189) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=191)