# Obvious things about a creative work you realize after the millionth time (OPEN SPOILERS POSSIBLE) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 24, 2009, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117 "2009-07-24T13:20:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 197
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2021, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3923 "2021-01-06T00:13:40Z")
In _The Secret of NIMH_, there’s three different types of animals that can talk and have human-level intelligence: the rats/mice, an owl, and a crow. The rats and mice got their intelligence explicitly due to scientific experimentation: how did the owl and the crow get intelligent? They eat mice and rats. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2021, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3924 "2021-01-06T01:09:09Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > They eat mice and rats. That’s great. I love little details that only make sense when you think about the world. In Amazing Maurice and his Educated Rodents, it’s revealed early on that the Rats became intelligent from eating magic goo and Maurice, a cat, gained intelligence by eating one of the rats. ---
**Author:** ![turtlescanfly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/65b543/32.png) [@turtlescanfly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/turtlescanfly)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2021, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3925 "2021-01-06T02:29:57Z")
Crows eat rats and mice? ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2021, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3926 "2021-01-06T02:32:26Z")
> [@turtlescanfly](#): > > Crows eat rats & mice? Huh? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2021, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3927 "2021-01-06T02:49:14Z")
Yes? Crows are omnivorous scavengers. They’re also active hunters, and mice are a major prey species for them. Adult rats are probably a bit big as prey, but they’d certainly eat juvenile rats, and they’d probably scavenge a recently deceased rat. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2021, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3928 "2021-01-06T13:13:26Z")
Did the intelligence boost come after a single sapient rodent, or was it a gradual thing over the course of many meals? Because if the latter, that must have gotten seriously awkward at some point. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2021, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3929 "2021-01-06T13:16:40Z")
This isn’t obvious to me, because I never saw the entire original film. I think the origin usually given may be improperly attributed. “I, for one, welcome our new insect overlords” – spoken by newscaster Brockman on the Simpsons episode “Deep Space Homer” from 1974. It’s transcended its original use to become a meme, frequently used on this Board. In fact, the Dope Board is credited with helping spread its use by the _Know Your Meme_ website > **[I, For One, Welcome Our New Insect Overlords](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/i-for-one-welcome-our-new-insect-overlords)** > > “I, for one, welcome our new insect overlords” is a memorable quote from the 1977 film adaptation of H.G. Wells’ short story Empire of the Ants. In online conversations, the phrase can be used to suggest that an outsider group or entity is powerful... The origin is given as the 1977 abysmal film _Empire of the Ants_, which was nominally based on a story by H.G. wells, but is so completely changed that it’s really a sort of low-rent version of _Them_, with smaller (though still big) ants, crappy special effects, and a slumming Joan Collins, whose mind is controlled by ants. As Know Your Meme puts it [quote] The phrase is frequently misattributed to a film adaptation of the H.G. Wells science fiction story _Empire of the Ants_ [[8]](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/i-for-one-welcome-our-new-insect-overlords#fn8) was released on July 29th, 1977, which revolved around giant mutated ants attempting to destroy humankind. In the film, actress Joan Collins reacts to the insect threat by saying a similar line, “Don’t you see, we mustn’t’ disobey them. We must take care of them and we must help them.”[[2](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/i-for-one-welcome-our-new-insect-overlords#fn24) [/quote] But I suspect this may not be correct. Four years earlier, another movie about controlling ants came out, written and directed by legendary cartoonist and movie title maker Saul Bass (who did the spectacular end titles for _Around the World in 80 Days,_ among others). That film was Phase IV. The premise is that ants have developed a hive mind. Here’s the plot description, from the Wikipedia page: > [@](#): > > The narrative uses the scientific team as the main protagonists, but there are also ant protagonists going about their duties in the colony. The ants immunize themselves to the humans’ chemical weapons and soon infiltrate their lab. Teams of ants penetrate the computers of the lab and short them out. After Lesko decodes an ant message, Kendra Eldrige (a young woman who has taken refuge with the scientists), becomes convinced that her actions have enraged the ants. Seeking to save the two scientists, she abandons the lab and apparently sacrifices herself. > > Hubbs and Lesko begin to have different plans for dealing with the ants. While Lesko thinks he can communicate with the ants by means of messages written in mathematics, Hubbs plans to wipe out a hill he believes to be the ants’ central hive. Delirious from a venomous ant sting, Hubbs can barely get his boots on but is determined to attack the hive and kill the ant queen. Instead, Hubbs literally falls into a trap – a deep pit that the ants fill with earth. Helpless to save Hubbs and convinced that the ants will soon move into desert areas where their growth will exceed man’s ability to control them, Lesko chooses to follow Hubbs’s plan. He sets out to the hive with a canister of poison. Descending into the hive, Lesko hunts for the queen but instead finds Kendra reaching out from under the sand. The two embrace and Lesko realizes that far from destroying the human race, the ants’ plan is to adapt the human race and make them a part of the ants’ world. In voice-over, Lesko states that **he does not know what plans the ants have, but he is awaiting instruction.** (Bolding mine) The film developed a cult following (as did _Empire_, though for different reasons), and introduced the concept of hive minds to the public earlier (the idea was around far longer in sf literature, but movies spread these concepts much better to the general public). I suspect that this is where the idea first came from. Although the idea of an ant-mind-controlled Joan Collins may have really driven the idea home. > **[Phase IV (1974 film)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase_IV_(1974_film))** > > Phase IV is a 1974 science-fiction horror film. The only feature-length film directed by graphic designer and filmmaker Saul Bass, it stars Michael Murphy, Nigel Davenport and Lynne Frederick. > The interiors of the film were shot at Pinewood Studios in England and the exterior locations were shot in Kenya, though the film is set in the Arizona desert in the United States. It was produced by Alced Productions and Paramount Pictures. > The film was a box office flop and thus the only feature film di... ---
**Author:** ![turtlescanfly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/65b543/32.png) [@turtlescanfly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/turtlescanfly)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2021, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3930 "2021-01-06T16:26:28Z")
Well, ignorance fought then. ---
**Author:** ![Eclipse\_Chaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@Eclipse\_Chaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eclipse_Chaser)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2021, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3931 "2021-01-06T16:33:16Z")
I’m re- watching “The West Wing” and just got to the episode where CJ’s secret service protection guy gets killed in an armed robbery of a store. CJ and the Presidential party are watching a stage production of “The Wars of the Roses” at the time. Symbolically, red and white roses are those which represent the two sides in the conflict. In the aftermath of the shooting there are some scenes in the store where a lot of flowers have been scattered all over the floor during the robbery. They are red and white roses. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2021, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3932 "2021-01-06T17:17:15Z")
Because of the movie, I keep thinking that Marvel Phase IV should star Ant-Man. Few get that joke without explanation. I’ve seen _Phase IV._ Quite a good movie. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2021, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3933 "2021-01-09T23:39:20Z")
I just saw _Family Plot._ At the end, Barbara Harris uses her “psychic” power to find the diamonds hidden in the chandelier. Then she winks at the audience. This time I caught a line of dialog just after they drugged her. William Devane mentions the jewels in the chandelier. It was likely that Harris was just conscious enough to hear the line, hence the wink. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3934 "2021-01-10T05:57:55Z")
Well, my ravens eat mice. Live ones, and both crows and ravens will eat carrion. ---
**Author:** ![furryman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/furryman/32/99_2.png) [@furryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furryman)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3935 "2021-01-10T19:43:09Z")
I just realized that Mobius, the home planet of Sonic the Hedgehog was named after [August Ferdinand Möbius](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/August_Ferdinand_M%C3%B6bius). ---
**Author:** ![Eclipse\_Chaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@Eclipse\_Chaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eclipse_Chaser)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3936 "2021-01-13T09:35:06Z")
Ok this is a really pathetic one. I’ve been watching most incarnations of Star Trek for many years. But watching a rerun of DS9 the other day I realised that the uniforms of the people working on the station are different from those on a starship. Starship personnel have coloured shirts with black tops, station personnel have black shirts with coloured tops. ---
**Author:** ![ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chockfullofheadygoodness/32/511_2.png) [@ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3937 "2021-01-13T20:34:30Z")
I’ve probably seen Mad Max 2 aka The Road Warrior a couple dozen times over the past 35 years. I can’t believe I just noticed this one. The night before the big truck chase, the leader Papagallo is talking about who will drive the truck, and is playing with an hourglass. The first time I saw it I made the obvious connection he’s thinking about his own mortality and how he might die during the escape attempt. I watched it again a few days ago and it finally hit me. Hourglass…sand…the tanker is full of sand Granted, a first time viewer wouldn’t know that, but the second time around, it should have been an obvious bit of foreshadowing. ---
**Author:** ![Pavelb1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/439d5e/32.png) [@Pavelb1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pavelb1)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2021, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3938 "2021-01-15T21:22:01Z")
WAIT…in Superman…he goes back in time and rescues Lois right? He DOESNT stop the 100… ONE HUNDRED MEGATON bomb from exploding? The largest nuclear weapon ever exploded was 70 MT. 100 megatons. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2021, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3939 "2021-01-15T21:31:03Z")
I just noticed that Popeye cartoons are kind of formulaic. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2021, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3940 "2021-01-16T06:32:40Z")
Yes, he does. He stops the eastern bomb first, then goes back in time to stop the one in the West. ---
**Author:** ![Pavelb1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/439d5e/32.png) [@Pavelb1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pavelb1)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2021, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3941 "2021-01-16T06:35:49Z")
Then why is there still an earthquake and Lois’s car wont start? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2021, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3942 "2021-01-16T06:37:49Z")
wiki _While Superman is busy saving others, Lois’s car falls into a crevice from one of the [aftershocks](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aftershocks), trapping her as it fills with dirt and debris. She suffocates before Superman can reach her. Angered over failing to save her, Superman defies Jor-El’s earlier warning not to manipulate human history, and instead heeds Jonathan’s advice that he must be there for “a reason”. He accelerates around Earth, traveling several minutes backward in time to prevent Lois’s death while also undoing the damage caused by the missile and earthquake. After saving the West Coast, Superman delivers Luthor and Otis to prison before flying into the sunrise for further adventures._ I guess the warhead does off but he undos the damage? eta **the best Superman film ever.** [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=196) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=198)