# Obvious things about a creative work you realize after the millionth time (OPEN SPOILERS POSSIBLE) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 24, 2009, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117 "2009-07-24T13:20:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 199
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2021, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3963 "2021-02-01T21:15:41Z")
I don’t know if you count Morse Code as a creative work, but I only now realized that it is a form of binary. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2021, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3964 "2021-02-01T21:30:49Z")
I wouldn’t say that it is. There are only two symbols (dot and dash), but Morse Code only works if you add pauses between the letters. A true binary encoding can be decoded without that. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2021, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3965 "2021-02-01T21:36:03Z")
Yeah, it’s trinary. On Mr Atoz, I always thought it amazing that an alien planet has the Roman Alphabet in the same order. And the word ‘to’. ---
**Author:** ![peccavi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peccavi/32/388_2.png) [@peccavi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peccavi)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2021, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3966 "2021-02-01T21:42:52Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Yeah, it’s trinary. No, it’s binary. The pauses contain no information. All binary means is that there are two distinct signals with agreed upon binary values (1/0, yes/no, true/false, dot/dash). ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2021, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3967 "2021-02-01T21:47:18Z")
But Morse code requires three distinct symbols, dot, dash, and space. The spaces are important. ---
**Author:** ![peccavi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peccavi/32/388_2.png) [@peccavi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peccavi)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2021, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3968 "2021-02-01T21:52:33Z")
I agree that the pauses are important. What information do they convey that is not contained in the dots or the dashes? Look up RZ logic. It is not exactly the same, but the “spaces” (signal returns to zero or remains at zero for a fixed time) are part of a binary logic signal, not ternary (the correct name). ---
**Author:** ![Scarlax](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scarlax/32/2927_2.png) [@Scarlax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarlax)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2021, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3969 "2021-02-01T21:57:01Z")
If you don’t think spaces convey information, I’d like to sell you a trip to Pen island. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2021, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3970 "2021-02-01T22:05:14Z")
Example: The word “cecil” in Morse code is “.-.- . .-.- … .-…” . The word “kitrsd” in Morse code is “-.- … - .-. … -…” . Without the spaces, how would you know which was which? ---
**Author:** ![peccavi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peccavi/32/388_2.png) [@peccavi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peccavi)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2021, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3971 "2021-02-01T22:07:27Z")
Again, the dot provides a bit of information, the dash provides a bit of information, and the space provides what, besides simple separation? (looks at title of the thread) I think this has become a bit of a hijack. If anyone is really interested in why @Hypno-Toad is right, start a MPSIMS or GQ thread and I’ll gladly go into detail as to why. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2021, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3972 "2021-02-01T22:12:07Z")
> [@peccavi](#): > > Again, the dot provides a bit of information, the dash provides a bit of information, and the space provides what, besides simple separation? That one word has ended, and another is starting. Which is information. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2021, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3973 "2021-02-01T22:22:56Z")
> [@peccavi](#): > > What information do they convey that is not contained in the dots or the dashes? AN = .- -. P = .–. A space tells you which is which. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2021, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3974 "2021-02-02T10:14:44Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I wouldn’t say that it is. There are only two symbols (dot and dash), but Morse Code only works if you add pauses between the letters. A true binary encoding can be decoded without that. That’s a difference between a logical encoding and a physical encoding. I work with true binary signals all the time, and I can tell you that the way the transitions are implemented is an important part of decoding true binary signals from physical analogs. You may argue that nothing physical is a “true” scotchman, but I can only respond that you better not say anythings about “zero’s” and “ones”. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2021, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3975 "2021-02-02T10:39:39Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > AN = .- -. > P = .–. > > A space tells you which is which. Markdown converts your two dashes into a long dash, so that may not be clear. ``` AN = .- -. (with a space between) P = .--. ``` Spaces separate letters and words, so Morse really consists of three values not two. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2021, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3976 "2021-02-02T10:59:25Z")
[Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morse_code) has more detail. In fact, you need 5 values, but these can be encoded using binary: > 1. short mark, dot or “dit” (▄): 1 > 2. longer mark, dash or “dah” (▄▄▄): 111 > 3. intra-character gap (between the dots and dashes within a character): 0 > 4. short gap (between letters): 000 > 5. medium gap (between words): 0000000 > > Note that the marks and gaps alternate: dots and dashes are always separated by one of the gaps, and that the gaps are always separated by a dot or a dash. So, using that encoding: ``` AN = 1011100011101 P = 10111011101 ``` ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2021, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3978 "2021-02-02T12:31:13Z")
How about short mark: 0 long mark: 10 letter gap: 110 word gap: 111 Forget about the intra-character gap once you can distinguish 0 from 1. Now `AN = 010110100` `P = 010100` `HELLO FRIEND = 0000110011001000110010001101010101110010011001001100011001101001101000` Feel free to correct the Wikipedia article ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2021, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3979 "2021-02-02T13:12:25Z")
The system given on Wikipedia is probably that way because traditionally a dash is three times longer than a dot, and they are using zeros only for spaces. So it’s simply a representation of traditional usage, not true binary. I think your system would work. But a human operator wouldn’t find it easy – and for a computer Ascii or Unicode is better! ---
**Author:** ![furryman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/furryman/32/99_2.png) [@furryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furryman)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2021, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3980 "2021-02-02T19:31:57Z")
I just realized that the name of the pedophile in _Family Guy_ , Mr. Herbert is a parody of the name of the main character in _Lolita_, Humbert Humbert. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2021, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3981 "2021-02-02T21:30:55Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > But a human operator wouldn’t find it easy – and for a computer Ascii or Unicode is better! For a computer, the binary values have to be separated by a space. Like Morse, that’s the way computers work. If you could have zero transition length, you could have infinite bandwidth and infinite speed. Real computers and real networks and real memory don’t have infinite bandwidth and infinite speed and ‘time’ is a critical parameter. I note that the ~ary representations given above, 0 1 . - are no more ‘binary’ than any other ‘binary’ representation, containing a huge amount of information whose only purpose is to make decoding more efficient. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2021, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3982 "2021-02-02T23:58:49Z")
_Obvious_, team. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Scarlax](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scarlax/32/2927_2.png) [@Scarlax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarlax)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2021, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/3983 "2021-02-03T01:21:58Z")
To say that is a stretch is giving you too much credit. Apparently his name is John Herbert, which bears little resemblance to Humbert Humbert, so I think the moniker Herbert the Pervert works because it loosely rhymes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=198) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=200)