# Obvious things about a creative work you realize after the millionth time (OPEN SPOILERS POSSIBLE) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 24, 2009, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117 "2009-07-24T13:20:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 206
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2021, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4104 "2021-05-07T17:05:27Z")
At the end of Blazing Saddles, when the fight breaks through the fourth wall and spills into a Hollywood back lot, there are no Black people in modern Hollywood. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2021, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4105 "2021-05-10T02:39:50Z")
You know, thank you for that, as that scene also bothers me for another reason- Sgt Krupke is looking for a excuse to arrest the gang members. But he doesnt really have a good one, besides Mopery and Dopery. 😱 But at the end, they assault a Police officer, a solid felony. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2021, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4106 "2021-05-10T02:42:41Z")
When they break into the dance scene? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2021, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4107 "2021-05-10T03:09:54Z")
Not really a thing I realized. More like a nagging question. There’s a scene in _The Martian_ where the crew decide whether to disobey orders and change their flight plan in order to go back to Mars and rescue Mark. Commander Lewis points out that this could be viewed as mutiny and, at the very least, none of them will ever be allowed to go on another mission in space; NASA will never trust them and be willing to put them in another situation where they might disobey an order. That was very realistic. NASA’s standards are extremely high and there would be no reason to take a chance on a crew member they were less than 100% sure of. But in the final scenes of the movie, we see what the crew members are doing five years later and one of the scenes shows that Rick Martinez is not only part of the Ares V mission but appears to be commanding it. Did I miss something? I know that NASA changed the orders and pretended that what the crew was doing was their original plan. But that was just public relations. The NASA administration knew what had happened. And Lewis had even specifically warned Martinez that the two of them, as military officers, would probably face the greatest consequences. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2021, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4108 "2021-05-10T03:44:33Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Did I miss something? Success changes everything. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2021, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4109 "2021-05-10T04:07:10Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > > > Did I miss something > > Success changes everything. I don’t find that realistic. Running a mission to another planet isn’t about hoping you’ll get lucky and things will work out in the end. It’s about planning everything out in advance, testing it, and hoping that there will be no surprises. To the NASA administration. a crew member who makes their own decisions is a variable. They’ll treat a crew member who generally follows orders but sometimes doesn’t the same way they’ll treat a part that generally works but sometimes doesn’t; they’ll replace it with something more reliable. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2021, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4110 "2021-05-10T04:13:09Z")
My takeaway is that it was all for PR. The crew would be worldwide heros. Not people you’d put on the back burner. You’ll want them out front. That’s newsworthy. That keeps pressure on congress to keep the money flowing. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2021, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4111 "2021-05-10T11:20:23Z")
Yeah. In private the big wigs might be all “We’re watching you really closely now, so no more shenanigans,” but in public, it will be “Like everyone else in the world, we admire our heroic team very much” ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2021, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4112 "2021-05-10T11:57:12Z")
When your team fucks up and you can’t fire the players, you fire the manager (Sean Bean). ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUBv.2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanubv.2/32/3260_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUBv.2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUBv.2)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2021, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4113 "2021-05-10T12:50:09Z")
Listening to John Mellencamp’s _Jack and Diane_ for the millionth time, I realized that after the line, “Jack, he scratches his head and does his best James Dean” the next line starts with “Well then, there, Diane, . . .”. It’s kind of mumbled so I never realized that he’s quoting JD from _Rebel Without a Cause_ (JD actually says, “Well then, there now”). Stupid because I’ve seen /heard the movie / song umpteen times and even more stupid because _I_ actually _say_ “well, then there now” sometimes. 🤦‍♀️ ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2021, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4114 "2021-05-10T12:58:05Z")
Not the millionth time but pretty close to the end of the last (and apparently final) series: The show _American Gods_ regularly featured the title as a neon sign with some flickering letters. I thought nothing of it until, at last, the penny dropped that there was a not-very-hidden message there relating to the main character, spelled out in the few letters that didn’t flicker: **AM** ER **I** C **A** N **GOD** S ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2021, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4115 "2021-05-11T19:57:36Z")
I was today years old when I learned that _Aliens_’s Vazquez: [![Imgur](https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51173944625_fabf6e01cb_b.jpg "ea0b0f5a67bfc17e81eafd203eef71d3") ](https://www.flickr.com/photos/68782016@N08/51173944625/) …is just _Titanic_’s Irish Mommy: [![Imgur](https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51172174132_acd3e67dbf.jpg "irish-woman-1513181503") ](https://www.flickr.com/photos/68782016@N08/51172174132/) … in blackface. > **[Jenette Goldstein](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenette_Goldstein)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > Jenette Elise Goldstein (born February 4, 1960) is an American actress. She is known for starring as Private Vasquez in the sci-fi horror film Aliens (1986), which won her the Saturn Award for Best Supporting Actress. She also played Diamondback in Near Dark (1987) which earned her a second Saturn Award nomination, Megan Shapiro in Lethal Weapon 2 (1989) and Janelle Voight in Terminator 2 (1991). She made cameo appearances in Star Trek Generations... ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2021, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4116 "2021-05-11T20:04:21Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > I was today years old when I learned that _Aliens_ ’s Vazquez: I hadn’t realized that she was Ed Furlong’s foster mom in **Terminator 2**. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2021, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4117 "2021-05-11T20:08:05Z")
I do not get it. AMAGOD? ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2021, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4118 "2021-05-11T20:23:05Z")
The bolded read: AM I A GOD ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2021, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4119 "2021-05-11T20:25:26Z")
Read it again: **AM** ER **I** C **A** N **GOD** S = AM I A GOD(?) I haven’t watched the series since the first season, but the basic set up is that gods and spirits and heroes and everything from every myth exists in some form in America, based on popular belief (there are a _bunch_ of iterations of Jesus Christ). Modern concepts like Globalization also ahve personified spirits/gods. The main character is an ex-con that falls in with a conman who turns out to be an iteration of Odin. Spoilers: In the first season, it’s implied that the main character is actually the True King of America, which would potentially make him a god, as the series defines them. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2021, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4120 "2021-05-11T20:50:03Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > In the first season, it’s implied that the main character is actually the True King of America, which would potentially make him a god, as the series defines them. The book did mention something about him receiving the coin of the King of America, but he gives it away. [Which means…?] But it does explicitly say that he is a god, namely American Baldr, like one of the bad guys is American Odin and so on. ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2021, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4121 "2021-05-11T20:50:46Z")
…and in the book, it becomes apparent that the main character is the American instance of Odin’s son, Baldur. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2021, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4122 "2021-05-11T21:32:19Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > The book did mention something about him receiving the coin of the King of America, but he gives it away. [Which means…?] But it does explicitly say that he is a god, namely American Baldr, like one of the bad guys is American Odin and so on. > [@Pork\_Rind](#): > > …and in the book, it becomes apparent that the main character is the American instance of Odin’s son, Baldur. I don’t remember the book very well. And I only watched the first season of the show, so I have no idea how much they diverged. From what I remember on the show, The Leprechaun accidentally gives Shadow his Lucky Coin, and spends the rest of the first season trying to track Shadow down to get it back. He repeatedly says something along the lines that the coin isn’t something you give to just anyone, it’s something you give to the King of America. Which I took as an indication that Shadow was the True King of America. But maybe that was just a set-up for Shadow giving the Coin to someone else. Or maybe I’m misremembering the whole thing… ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2021, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4123 "2021-05-11T21:36:01Z")
The show diverged quite a lot from the book, although they kept certain storylines. It ended just as Shadow was hanging on Yggdrasil over Odin’s body. There was some other weird shit going on but the story was finally getting back on track. And then they cancelled it. Oh well. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=205) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=207)