# Obvious things about a creative work you realize after the millionth time (OPEN SPOILERS POSSIBLE) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 24, 2009, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117 "2009-07-24T13:20:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 216
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2021, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4305 "2021-08-23T18:08:34Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > Fear of accusations of “appropriation”? That seems unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2021, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4306 "2021-08-23T19:12:53Z")
Just because a work if art seems autobiographical, doesn’t mean it is. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2021, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4307 "2021-08-23T20:03:24Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > Fear of accusations of “appropriation”? I think it’s more a side effect of social media. Artists are expected to be constantly talking about themselves, to present an “authentic” version of themselves to the public, that it’s started to leak into their actual work. Anyway… I was listening to Billy Joel’s [Zanzibar](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yget4xVAulE) the other day, for the first time in a long time. Now, I’ve know the song for most of my life, so I’ve never really put much thought in the lyrics. I mean, I knew who Pete Rose was, and I got the baseball-as-sex metaphors, but the first few lines always seemed somewhat opaque: _Ali dances and the audience applauds_ _Though he’s bathed in sweat he hasn’t lost his style_ _Ali don’t you go downtown_ _You gave away another round for free_ Was Ali some sort of nightclub performer? He was dancing, and he was giving rounds of drinks for free, but what was “go downtown” all about? It probably wasn’t sexual, but then what did those lines mean? I pondered the words for a while, and then I realized: _He’s talking about Muhammed Ali._ It’s a sports bar! They’re watching a boxing match! It all clicked together. I have no idea why it took me 40 years to figure it out. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2021, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4308 "2021-08-24T02:51:14Z")
I was today years old when I learned the line _this little piggie went to market_ Meant the pig was slaughtered and sold at market, not that the pig took a shopping basket and bought some groceries. 🤦‍♂️ ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2021, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4309 "2021-08-24T03:31:50Z")
My interpretation of the rhyme is a morality fable about the perils of gluttony. It tells in alternate lines the stories of two pigs. The first was sold at market, the second stayed at home, the first was fattened with a lot of food, the second was given none, and the first screamed as it was slaughtered. This is entirely folk etymology, but it’s my theory and I’m sticking to it. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2021, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4310 "2021-08-24T04:26:21Z")
A litter of 5 pigs: 1. Big toe, ready for market 2. Index toe, still growing 3. Middle toe, being fattened for slaughter 4. ? toe, already fattened, this is next for slaughter as the purpose of not feeding a pig is to, er, empty their bowels as much as possible pre-slaughter. 5. Little toe, the runt of the litter. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2021, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4311 "2021-08-24T04:40:14Z")
A letter to the New England Journal of Medicine suggests the following Latin names for the toe bones, from largest to smallest: _porcellus fori_ _p. domi_ _p. carnivorus_ _p. nonvoratus_ _p. plorans domum_ [link](https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Name+this+little+piggy.-a010658401) ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2021, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4312 "2021-08-24T13:02:33Z")
I was today years old when I learned that Ron Jeremy was an extra in 1984’s _Ghostbusters_: [![Imgur](https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51399440526_52fd8f544c_z.jpg "20210824\_075939") ](https://www.flickr.com/photos/68782016@N08/51399440526/) ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2021, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4313 "2021-08-24T14:30:12Z")
Not really obvious, though. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2021, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4314 "2021-08-24T14:47:55Z")
I am gobsmacked. I had no idea! This message board might (arguably) be on its last legs, but there are still moments when the half-century-old-and-counting purpose behind “Cecil Adams” persists: “ignorance fought.” ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2021, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4315 "2021-08-24T14:50:08Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > Not really obvious, though. Not with his clothes on, no. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2021, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4316 "2021-08-24T15:39:48Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > Not really obvious, though. If you’re 4 and being lied to by mom, correct. 😉 But being 54 and having this explained to you, yes, it’s definitely obvious that the entire sequence is about raising pigs to be sold/slaughtered. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2021, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4317 "2021-08-24T17:30:39Z")
Sorry. I was referring to the Ron Jeremy picture. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2021, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4318 "2021-08-24T20:03:40Z")
So was @JohnT. Maybe? ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2021, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4319 "2021-08-24T20:23:05Z")
Well, he is known as “The Hedgehog.” ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2021, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4320 "2021-08-26T07:33:52Z")
In more recent Ron Jeremy news, I read earlier today that a grand jury has indicted him on over thirty felony counts. So I wouldn’t expect to see him in the Ghostbusters remake. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2021, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4321 "2021-08-26T14:07:59Z")
Well, as the saying goes, a fox knows many things, but a hedgehog knows one big thing. And apparently that big thing is sexual assault. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2021, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4322 "2021-08-26T15:40:04Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > But being 54 and having this explained to you, yes, it’s definitely obvious that the entire sequence is about raising pigs to be sold/slaughtered. I tend to prefer the less grizzly interpretation of “this little piggy went to market”; it is a children’s rhyme, after all. There’s a song by Uncle Bonsai called _To Market, to Market (Pigs)_. The last verse is: _Trojan pigs and jungle pigmies Butts, and flanks, and shanks, and feets Proper pigs with pickled pig knees Pigskin punting in the streets Pig-me-ups and pig pollutants Pigs at bay, at work, at war Pigs to pork and fresh Pig Newtons That’s what piggy parts are for_ I don’t know how many times I heard that song before I realized that “pigs at bay” was a reference to the Bay of Pigs. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2021, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4323 "2021-08-26T15:49:49Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > I just saw an episode where Burger is quoted as saying that the point of the trial isn’t winning or losing, but rather achieving justice. Modern prosecutors say that justice is not a result, but a process. If the trial was fair justice has been achieved even if a person who did not commit the crime is convicted. Antonin Scalia agreed with this viewpoint. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2021, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4324 "2021-08-26T22:55:47Z")
> [@Bill\_Door](#): > > Modern prosecutors say that justice is not a result, but a process. Like making sausages. (I didn’t make that up as a caustic comment. I’m reporting.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=215) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=217)