# Obvious things about a creative work you realize after the millionth time (OPEN SPOILERS POSSIBLE) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 24, 2009, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117 "2009-07-24T13:20:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 225
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2022, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4485 "2022-01-03T22:56:52Z")
You know, it may not actually be that obvious since a lot of people ID that tune as, “The Pina Colada Song.” ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2022, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4486 "2022-01-04T02:54:59Z")
Was just rewatching Silverado on Netflix. In the scene (around the 1:15 mark) where Emmet (Scott Glen) meets up with Ethan McKendrick, it seems (at first) that McKendrick has made peace with Emmet, letting bygones be bygones. But then Swan, one of McKendrick men, states that the horse Augie (Emmet’s nephew) is riding belonged to one of McKendrick’s men, named Lee (Emmet’s brother Jake had taken it off of one of the raiders, presumably Lee, that he’d killed when they attacked the settler’s encampment). McKendrick’s main man, Hoyt, says, “Shut up, Swan.” Ethan McKendrick (and Hoyt) had figured out that the horse was one of his (or one of his men’s) and was going to set up Emmet as a horse thief. A hanging offense. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2022, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4487 "2022-01-04T04:24:39Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > In the scene (around the 1:15 mark) where Emmet (Scott Glen) meets up with Ethan McKendrick, it seems (at first) that McKendrick has made peace with Emmet, letting bygones be bygones. But then Swan, one of McKendrick men, states that the horse Augie (Emmet’s nephew) is riding belonged to one of McKendrick’s men, named Lee (Emmet’s brother Jake had taken it off of one of the raiders, presumably Lee, that he’d killed when they attacked the settler’s encampment). McKendrick’s main man, Hoyt, says, “Shut up, Swan.” > > Ethan McKendrick (and Hoyt) had figured out that the horse was one of his (or one of his men’s) and was going to set up Emmet as a horse thief. A hanging offense. I don’t think that’s correct. At the very beginning of the movie, Emmet is attacked in a small shack. He kills the attackers, one of their horses runs off, but the other one stays. Emmet takes that horse with him (Paden rides it until he gets his own horse back), and that’s the one Augie is riding when he meets Ethan McKendrick. McKendrick tells Emmet that things are square between them, and he’s not looking for revenge. When they tell Swan to shut up, it’s not to set up Emmet as a horse thief, they just don’t want Emmet to know that McKendrick sent the men who attacked him. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2022, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4488 "2022-01-04T12:53:36Z")
You’re right about the origin of the horse; I’d forgotten about that. And your interpretation works as well; but I was recalling Emmet’s brother (or BIL?) saying Ethan McKendrick was slicker, smoother (I’m paraphrasing) than his father. So I read the scene that Ethan McKendrick would be just as happy to see Emmet swing from a gallows as a horse thief as kill him himself. Also: Emmet was quietly furious once he realized what was up, and made sure to give the horse back to Ethan. The anger can just as easily be explained by either theory, or even both together. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2022, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4489 "2022-01-04T16:44:37Z")
A Horatio Alger story is a person who by perseverance and hard work, enters into wealth and power. But when you read an actual Horatio Alger story what you find is it’s the story of a guy who voluntarily works themselves so hard on a plutocrats behalf that the plutocrat rewards him by making him the night watchman at the local railroad depot. In short, Horatio Alger stories are about interning your way into a crappy job. ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2022, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4490 "2022-01-04T16:52:08Z")
OMG, this one is kind of embarrassing, guys. I’ve been watching re-runs of RuPaul’s Drag Race, a show I’ve never watched before. But they’ve been running these marathons and I got sucked in. So in the last few days, I’ve seen about fifty of these things, and yesterday…it suddenly struck me…the identity of the dapper bald fellow who gives them their assignments at the beginning of the show. 🤯 It seems I just don’t pay attention too well. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2022, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4491 "2022-01-04T17:01:26Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > A Horatio Alger story is a person who by perseverance and hard work, enters into wealth and power. But when you read an actual Horatio Alger story what you find is it’s the story of a guy who voluntarily works themselves so hard on a plutocrats behalf that the plutocrat rewards him by making him the night watchman at the local railroad depot. > > In short, Horatio Alger stories are about interning your way into a crappy job. They rarely got rich, either. At best, they got enough to live on. And that was usually because of a lucky accident that brings them to the attention of the rich person. The real message is to work hard and take advantage of any lucky break that comes your way. ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2022, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4492 "2022-01-04T19:47:11Z")
And on the more cynical side, that that’s the best you can hope for if you weren’t born into wealth. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2022, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4493 "2022-01-04T19:49:54Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > The real message is to work hard and take advantage of any lucky break that comes your way. So change ‘voluntarily’ to ‘accidentally’, eh? Sounds better! ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2022, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4494 "2022-01-04T19:57:08Z")
Sort of, but that’s not quite what happens in Alger’s novels. The hero of Alger’s most famous novel, _Ragged Dick_, is fourteen years old as the book starts and is working as a bootblack. He lives on the street. He smokes and drinks but unlike most bootblacks doesn’t steal. By showing various well-off gentlemen that he is honest and thrifty, he finally makes enough money to quit living on the street. He learns to read and write. By accident, he saves the life of a child from drowning. The child’s father is rich and finds him a job in his company. He moves from poverty to a middle-class existence. Incidentally, there is reason to think Alger sexually molested young boys: > **[Horatio Alger](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horatio_Alger)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > > Horatio Alger Jr. (/ˈældʒər/; January 13, 1832 – July 18, 1899) was an American author who wrote young adult novels about impoverished boys and their rise from humble backgrounds to lives of middle-class security and comfort through good works. His writings were characterized by the "rags-to-riches" narrative, which had a formative effect on the United States during the Gilded Age. > All of Alger's juvenile novels share essentially the same theme... > **[Ragged Dick](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ragged_Dick)** > > Ragged Dick; or, Street Life in New York with the Boot Blacks is a Bildungsroman by Horatio Alger Jr., which was serialized in The Student and Schoolmate in 1867 and expanded for publication as a full-length novel in May 1868 by the publisher A. K. Loring. It was the first volume in the six-volume Ragged Dick Series and became Alger's best-selling work. The tale follows a poor bootblack's rise to middle-class respectability in 19th-century New York City. It had a favorable reception. Student and ... ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2022, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4495 "2022-01-04T21:24:07Z")
I’m going to win the thread here for densest person. You want to talk about an obvious thing I did not notice until now? I have read the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings many times. Not “a million”, but a lot and I just realized the other day. Hobbit Chapter 1 - **An Unexpected Party** Lord of the Rings Chapter 1 - **A Long-expected Party** I never noticed he “sequeled” the first chapter titles in his book, but he did. This should have been massively obvious and stand-out to anyone, but I never really noticed. I now have to wonder what other sequel-moments I missed that were obvious. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2022, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4496 "2022-01-04T23:30:24Z")
I’ve also read both works multiple times. I never noticed that, either. That’s genuinely neat. Thanks for pointing that out. (But I don’t think it’s really that obvious, or that you and I are particularly dense for not noticing that - I personally just never paid that much attention to the chapter titles). ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2022, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4497 "2022-01-04T23:56:30Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Hobbit Chapter 1 - **An Unexpected Party** > Lord of the Rings Chapter 1 - **A Long-expected Party** And the first chapter of Bored Of The Rings: **It’s My Party And I’ll Snub Who I Want To** ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2022, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4498 "2022-01-05T03:58:33Z")
> [@Shoeless](#): > > I caught a rerun of The Big Bang Theory last night - the one where Wil Wheaton is hosting a celebrity D&D game and the guys are all trying to crash it. I’ve seen this episode several times, but noticed for the first time when the guys show up at Wil Wheaton’s door that his house number is “1701”. I just saw the episode where Sheldon spends an evening with James Earl Jones. When they ring the doorbell and run at Carrie Fisher’s house, her number is “138”. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2022, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4499 "2022-01-05T05:45:38Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > I was only vaguely aware of Tim Minchin as “that Russell Brand-esque guy with the dreads and the guyliner”. Until I recently stumbled across videos of his powerful portrayal of Judas in a 2012 production of _Jesus Christ Superstar_ . Amazing. > > It’s not exactly obvious, but in the opening number, “Heaven On Their Minds”, he gives a little eyeroll as he sings the line “You really do believe this talk of God is true”. Minchin is of course a notable atheist. Speaking of that song, I was rewatching the 1973 film a year or so ago. I had seen it several times before but this was the first time I noticed something interesting about the staging. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/pqoeM18vCaU/maxresdefault.jpg "Jesus Christ Superstar (1973) - Heaven on their Minds (Carl Anderson) ENG Sub - A. Lloyd Webber") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqoeM18vCaU) If you listen to the lyrics, it seems like Judas is trying to warn Jesus of the danger he is in in a misguided effort to help him. The shots of Judas are staged so it look like he’s directly addressing Jesus who’s just off camera. But as the song goes on, different shots are added in and we see that Jesus is just a speck on the horizon from where Judas is. Judas is just throwing his warnings and advice out to the wing, knowing that Jesus won’t even hear them. He’s not really trying to advise Jesus; he’s just trying to convince himself that he’s doing the right thing. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2022, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4500 "2022-01-05T12:51:56Z")
In Faulkner’s _As I Lay Dying_, the family doctor is a big fat man named Peabody. A big fat man. Named “Pea-body.” ---
**Author:** ![Mr.E](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.e/32/8932_2.png) [@Mr.E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.E)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2022, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4501 "2022-01-05T19:38:23Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > If you watch _Animaniacs_ , a million times Dot, Yakko, and Wakko introduce themselves as “The Warner brothers, and the Warner sister”. However, their actual names were Harry, Albert, Sam, Jack, Sadie, Milton, David, Fannie, Anna, and Rose. So, who is who? What if I told you “Dot” was named after the period in the “Warner Bros. Pictures” logo? ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2022, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4502 "2022-01-05T19:41:01Z")
“Why, do you think it’s the sort of thing you’re likely to say?” ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUBv.2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanubv.2/32/3260_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUBv.2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUBv.2)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2022, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4503 "2022-01-06T13:13:45Z")
I _thought_ I’d come to the (extremely) late realization that **Adam Ant** = _adamant_. Looking at Wiki, it’s not the case after all. According to the ant man himself , he chose “Adam” because Adam was the first man and “ants” because ants would survive a nuclear explosion. I like my theory better. ---
**Author:** ![dirtball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dirtball/32/18772_2.png) [@dirtball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dirtball)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2022, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4504 "2022-01-06T13:45:00Z")
Huh. How 'bout that. I always assumed it was a play on the cartoon character Atom Ant, which Mr. Ant and I both are of an age to remember from childhood. > **[Atom Ant](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atom_Ant)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > Atom Ant is a cartoon ant and superhero, created by Hanna-Barbera in 1965. Atom costarred in The Atom Ant/Secret Squirrel Show (sharing top billing with Secret Squirrel). In syndication, Atom Ant aired alongside Precious Pupp and The Hillbilly Bears. Reruns aired on cable on Cartoon Network and Boomerang in the 1990s and 2000s. > Atom Ant (originally voiced by Howard Morris, then by Don Messick in later episodes) is a superhero ant who operated ou... [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=224) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=226)