# Obvious things about a creative work you realize after the millionth time (OPEN SPOILERS POSSIBLE) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 24, 2009, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117 "2009-07-24T13:20:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 227
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4525 "2022-01-19T02:34:04Z")
Saw Terminator 2 for the first time ages (it’s on Netflix) and it only just occured to me that Cyberdyne joins the list “evil but spectacular dumb and pointless” megacorps in movies. I mean they knew what happened in the firsr film, and Sarah Conner’s account that Cyberdyne would bring about the nuclear apocalypse and the machine attempt to wipe out mankind. Given all that and the evidence to back her up, they decide to… go ahead and cause the apocalypse anyway. We know they must believe her, or why would they cover it up and take the terminator parts? What is their motivation for ignoring the obvious evidence that they are wiping out mankind? I mean the execs at Cyberdyne are in fact human beings, even the most cynical Exxon exec would baulk at actions that will, in all likelihood wipe out mankind (and the execs themselves) on a specific day in 1997. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4526 "2022-01-19T04:31:51Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > Saw Terminator 2 for the first time ages (it’s on Netflix) and it only just occured to me that Cyberdyne joins the list “evil but spectacular dumb and pointless” megacorps in movies. I mean they knew what happened in the firsr film, and Sarah Conner’s account that Cyberdyne would bring about the nuclear apocalypse and the machine attempt to wipe out mankind. Do we know they knew that? Dyson certainly seemed surprised. I certainly don’t think we know for certain that some specific greedy CEO had (a) decision-making authority over the crushed T800, and (b) full transcripts of Reese’s interviews with the cops. (In fact, if you were the CEO, and you show up and your factory is trashed but you find a crushed robot and fairly quickly realize its value, the last thing you’re going to do is start talking to the cops, because then the rightful owner of this robot (which you’ll presumably start out thinking is some advanced prototype, not a time traveler) will show up and demand it back.) ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Hamsandwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4bbf92/32.png) [@Darth\_Hamsandwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Hamsandwich)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4527 "2022-01-19T06:26:29Z")
In Bad Lieutenant, Harvey Keitel makes a sports bet within the first twenty minutes. His colleagues express doubt. Keitel replies, “You say it like it’s a death sentence. It’s a smart fuckin’ bet.” It was a death sentence. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4528 "2022-01-19T15:00:30Z")
In the Eagles “Life in the Fast Lane” I thought the “lines on the mirror” meant a cracked mirror. Hey, I was just a kid. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4529 "2022-01-19T15:14:20Z")
I just realized that Vanellope (of the Sugar Rush von Schweetz) in the movie _Wreck It Ralph_ is a play on vanilla, combined with Penelope. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4530 "2022-01-19T15:20:09Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > In the Eagles “Life in the Fast Lane” I thought the “lines on the mirror” meant a cracked mirror. Hey, I was just a kid. Speaking of the Eagles, until very, very recently I thought the line from “Hotel California” was _Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, she got the Mercedes Benz_ _She got a lot of pretty, pretty boys she calls **men** _. The actual word is _friends_. I still think my version works better though. ---
**Author:** ![dirtball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dirtball/32/18772_2.png) [@dirtball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dirtball)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4531 "2022-01-19T15:38:09Z")
I had always heard the “her mind” line as “Her mind is definitely twisted,.” with “definitely” slurred a bit to fit the meter. “Always,” like, up until this very moment. ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUBv.2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanubv.2/32/3260_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUBv.2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUBv.2)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4532 "2022-01-19T15:39:33Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Speaking of the Eagles, until very, very recently I thought the line from “Hotel California” was > > _Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, she got the Mercedes Benz_ > _She got a lot of pretty, pretty boys she calls **men** _ . > > The actual word is _friends_ . I still think my version works better though. It’s actually Mercedes **bends** ; a clever little play on words, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4533 "2022-01-19T15:39:57Z")
> [@WOOKINPANUBv.2](#): > > It’s actually Mercedes **bends** ; a clever little play on words, IMO. Ooh, that is clever. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4534 "2022-01-19T15:40:54Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > In the Eagles “Life in the Fast Lane” I thought the “lines on the mirror” meant a cracked mirror. There was a post here which argued rather convincingly (so I remember) that the song was about Stevie Nicks’ and Lindsey Buckingham’s mid-70s party habits. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4535 "2022-01-19T16:04:32Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > There was a post here which argued rather convincingly (so I remember) that the song was about Stevie Nicks’ and Lindsey Buckingham’s mid-70s party habits. The story Joe Walsh tells is that the opening guitar lick was a fingering exercise he used to do, and one of the others (can’t remember but probably Don Henley) thought it was catchy enough to hang a hit song on, and they went to work. You may be right about the lyrics though. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4536 "2022-01-19T16:20:44Z")
And the lesson here is “Pay attention to your fingering exercises, guitar students!” ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4537 "2022-01-19T16:36:33Z")
Yeah, me too. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4538 "2022-01-19T19:15:13Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Do we know they knew that? We are pretty sure. There would have been a lot of inquiries into what happened, by police and other agencies. Sarah Conner was the primary (surviving) witness to all those events so her description of what happened (and will happen) would be very much in the public record. Sure it seems pretty bonkers without the Terminator parts, but with them (along with all the evidence from events like the attack on the police station) it’s pretty compelling. Reese’s testimony would also be public domain, it was a recorded interview in a police station. Dyson was a tech lead so far below any C level shenanigans (and he says the had the chip when he arrived as a junior engineer and was kept in the dark by the higher ups as to where it came from) > [@MaxTheVool](#): > > In fact, if you were the CEO, and you show up and your factory is trashed but you find a crushed robot a Wait the factory at the end of T1 is the Cyberdyne plant? Is that implied anywhere? It seems a bigger coincidence than the terminator in T2 happening to come across the two things that can actually damage him (liquid nitrogen and molten metal) at the end of T2. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4539 "2022-01-19T19:23:52Z")
Yes, it’s Cyberdyne. Deleted T1 scene here: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/zYkBSFKCDog/hqdefault.jpg "The Factory (Cyberdyne Systems) | The Terminator [Deleted Scene]") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYkBSFKCDog) Not too sure what electronic manufacturing processes require hydraulic presses, but it’s not my field, tbh. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4540 "2022-01-19T19:41:46Z")
It’s not a coincidence. It’s a closed temporal loop. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4541 "2022-01-19T21:16:56Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > _She got a lot of pretty, pretty boys she calls **men** _ . > > The actual word is _friends_ . I still think my version works better though. My ears always heard it as “Fred”, which made about as much sense as the rest of the song… ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4542 "2022-01-19T21:52:03Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > > [@JohnT](#): > > > > There was a post here which argued rather convincingly (so I remember) that the song was about Stevie Nicks’ and Lindsey Buckingham’s mid-70s party habits. > > The story Joe Walsh tells is that the opening guitar lick was a fingering exercise he used to do, and one of the others (can’t remember but probably Don Henley) thought it was catchy enough to hang a hit song on, and they went to work. You may be right about the lyrics though Kansas guitarist Kerry Livgren created a guitar exercise to help him learn fingerpicking. His wife heard it, liked the melody, and suggested he write lyrics for it. It became “Dust In The Wind”, the highest-charting single in the band’s history. ---
**Author:** ![ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chockfullofheadygoodness/32/511_2.png) [@ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4543 "2022-01-19T23:32:25Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > > [@Gyrate](#): > > > > The story Joe Walsh tells is that the opening guitar lick was a fingering exercise he used to do, and one of the others (can’t remember but probably Don Henley) thought it was catchy enough to hang a hit song on, and they went to work. You may be right about the lyrics though > > Kansas guitarist Kerry Livgren created a guitar exercise to help him learn fingerpicking. His wife heard it, liked the melody, and suggested he write lyrics for it. It became “Dust In The Wind”, the highest-charting single in the band’s history. SImilarly, the opening riff to Guns n Roses’ _Sweet Child O’ Mine_ was one of Slash’s warm-up exercises. ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4544 "2022-01-20T11:30:45Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > _Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, she got the Mercedes Benz_ > _She got a lot of pretty, pretty boys she calls **men** _ . > > The actual word is _friends_ . I still think my version works better though. Friends is a much better rhyme. > [@WOOKINPANUBv.2](#): > > It’s actually Mercedes **bends** ; a clever little play on words, IMO I know that and you know that, but it seems like a minority internet opinion. Come on folks, Tiffany _twisted_ and Mercedes _bends_ makes a perfect line. Where are those [liner notes](http://www.glennfreyonline.com/eagles/hotelcalifornia/linernotes.htm) when you need them? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=226) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=228)