# Obvious things about a creative work you realize after the millionth time (OPEN SPOILERS POSSIBLE) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 24, 2009, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117 "2009-07-24T13:20:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 229
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2022, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4565 "2022-01-23T18:08:37Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Much superior wordplay. This. Which fits in with _“Tiffany-twisted”_ and other parts of the song… There are a lot of clever twists of phrase in the song: Describing a woman as _“terminally pretty”…_ And _“She held him up/and he held her for ransom”…_ Clearly the Eagles (looked it up: Walsh, Frey and Henley) are trying (maybe too hard) to be clever. _Mercedes Benz?_ Not clever, doesn’t rhyme as well; _why_ are we arguing for a less creative, more boring line? ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2022, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4566 "2022-01-23T19:24:28Z")
What does Tiffany-twisted even mean? Likes lamps? Blue boxed jewellery? Hepburn? Highly outdated Asian impersonations? (Yeah, guessing the second.) ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2022, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4567 "2022-01-23T22:16:33Z")
> [@digs](#): > > There are a lot of clever twists of phrase in the song: > Describing a woman as _“terminally pretty”…_ > And _“She held him up/and he held her for ransom”…_ You’re thinking of a [different song](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_in_the_Fast_Lane). ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2022, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4568 "2022-01-23T23:12:31Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > What does Tiffany-twisted even mean? Likes lamps? Blue boxed jewellery? Hepburn? Highly outdated Asian impersonations? (Yeah, guessing the second.) Not everything in the world is literal. The movement you need is on your shoulder. It’s an evocative phrase. If you’re unable to get along without a literal interpretation, It implies her mind is warped by the trappings of wealth, but that weakens the line. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2022, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4569 "2022-01-23T23:22:17Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > Are Benz and bends pronounced differently in your dialect? They’re identical in mine. You pronounce “TZ” the same as “DS”? Do the words “bits” and “bids” sound the same to you? ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2022, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4570 "2022-01-23T23:27:43Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > You pronounce “TZ” the same as “DS”? In 65 years I have never heard anyone pronounce Benz with a “TZ”. [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Qev-i9-VKlY/hqdefault.jpg?sqp=-oaymwEmCOADEOgC8quKqQMa8AEB-AH-BIAC4AOKAgwIABABGGIgYihiMA8=&rs=AOn4CLAouF5OqKKOZJGgCYBeuogetoJrCg "Janis Joplin-Mercedes Benz(original)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qev-i9-VKlY) ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2022, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4571 "2022-01-23T23:31:03Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > You pronounce “TZ” the same as “DS”? While the German pronunciation of “Benz” would have a “TZ” sound, that’s not how English speakers pronounce it. At least, I’ve always heard it pronounced to rhyme with “lens.” If I’m being really careful to enunciate clearly, I would pronounce 'bends" (or “lends”) differently from “Benz” (or “lens”). But normally I wouldn’t be careful about pronouncing the d, and they’d sound the same. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2022, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4572 "2022-01-24T03:27:37Z")
I don’t think it’s unusual to try to interpret song lyrics. Even the great Cecil Adams addressed _Hotel California_ (“Cool Whip in her hair”). I agree not every poetic phrase can be given a precise meaning. But if Tiffany was a drug term or whatever (Cecil claims this of words like _colitas_), it might be slightly more interesting. Yeah, it can still be an evocative turn if phrase without bailing it down. Probably it does relate to the numbing effects of wealth. It’s still a decent line in any case. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2022, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4573 "2022-01-24T08:22:46Z")
> **[Tiffany Twist knot earrings in sterling silver. | Tiffany & Co.](https://www.international.tiffany.com/jewelry/earrings/tiffany-twist-knot-earrings-11775519/)** Tiffany Twisted, everyone! The Tiffany Twist has been around for decades and is a Tiffany and Co. staple. It’s effectively a knot. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2022, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4574 "2022-01-24T12:22:09Z")
Thank you! Ignorance fought. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2022, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4575 "2022-01-24T12:58:11Z")
It’s not that “Benz” has a D sound in it. It’s that “Friends” doesn’t, at least, not as usually spoken by most people. Most people, in casual speech, will pronounce “friends” as “frenz” (and likewise, “bends” as “benz”). But yeah, when you stop to think about it, the wordplay between “twist” and “bends” was obviously intentional. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2022, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4576 "2022-01-24T13:14:11Z")
I love how in English letter sounds are just suggestions, if that, y’all just throw letters at the word until you are more or less satisfied with the result 😆 This entire conversation about “Friends” and “Bends” rhyming would make no sense in Spanish, “OF COURSE they rhyme, can’t you see that they both end with he same letters?” ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2022, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4577 "2022-01-24T13:20:24Z")
Eh, English might be pretty bad about that, but at least we’re not French. And I think almost all English-speakers would agree that “friends” and “bends” rhyme (though there are other words, like “tough”, “cough”, “hiccough”, “plough”, and “dough”, that end in the same letters but don’t rhyme). The question here is just whether “Benz” rhymes with both of those or not. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2022, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4578 "2022-01-24T15:23:29Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Eh, English might be pretty bad about that, but at least we’re not French. Oh for sure, I thought about learning French but then I realized that it’s even less phonetic than English and said “NOPE”. ---
**Author:** ![lost4life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c4cdca/32.png) [@lost4life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lost4life)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2022, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4579 "2022-01-24T19:27:09Z")
Not sure if this is obvious, but Norma Desmond, the washed-up, elderly, former silent movie star in **Sunset Boulevard** , was supposed to be the ancient age of 50. I always assumed she was like in her 70s. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2022, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4580 "2022-01-24T19:42:01Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > (though there are other words, like “tough”, “cough”, “hiccough”, “plough”, and “dough”, that end in the same letters but don’t rhyme). They rhymed originally. ---
**Author:** ![Uncle\_Jocko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uncle_jocko/32/2932_2.png) [@Uncle\_Jocko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncle_Jocko)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4581 "2022-01-25T14:14:37Z")
Ah, so _that’s_ why Homer Simpson loves Duff beer! “D’oh” and “Duff” are supposed to rhyme. 🕶 ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4582 "2022-01-25T17:16:26Z")
More precisely, they shared a letter no longer in use, called yogh. Just as the thorn went to th, yogh went to gh. Words ending in yogh didn’t necessarily rhyme; the final letter could be preceded by a variety of vowel sounds, and [those are what we hear today](https://sesquiotic.com/2015/06/09/plough-through-enough-dough-to-make-you-cough-or-hiccough/). > There was this velar fricative after the vowel, and in Middle English it gradually weakened and caused rounding of the lips (velar fricatives tend to do this because they make the sound contrast more). So _plog_ became our word _plough_ , and _slog_ became the rhyming _slough_ , because they had the vowel in “pot” plus a “w” sound. For some reason, _bóg_ took this course too and became _bough_ . From _dáh_ , which naturally evolved towards the vowel in _home_ , we got _dough_ . The history of _burg_ to _borough_ and _þuruh_ to _thorough_ is more chaotic — in some modern English dialects, the final vowel is like “uh.” Meanwhile, we got _through_ from _þurg_ because it made it to Middle English with the _u_ before the _r_ , so it kept the “oo” sound, and then the _u_ and _r_ swapped places while the final fricative stopped being said. > > And then there are the ones that kept a stronger stressed “wh” sound in Middle English — or that only appeared in the language then — such as the Old English _genóg_ , _tóh_ and _ruh_ and the Middle English _slohu_ and _co_ _ȝ_ . The strong “wh” sound at the end was dominant enough that the vowel was shortened to the one we hear in “book” (except in _co_ _ȝ_ , which had a short _o_ with no _u_ influence). But then we strengthened the “wh” sound at the end of words to make it “f.” And so we got _enough_ , _tough_ , _rough_ , _slough_ and _cough_. Hiccough is nothing but early ignorance. > Oh, and what about _hiccough_ ? That’s due to pseudo-etymological mischief. The word was _hicke up_ or _hikup_ — readily reflected today as _hiccup_ — but some silly fellows decided it must come from _cough_ and so, because they wanted words to show where they came from (that classist obsession with pedigree), they started respelling it. It’s a mere parvenu, a poseur. A hiccup. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4583 "2022-01-25T23:21:31Z")
> [@lost4life](#): > > Not sure if this is obvious, but Norma Desmond, the washed-up, elderly, former silent movie star in **Sunset Boulevard** , was supposed to be the ancient age of 50. I always assumed she was like in her 70s. I think that was part of the point: In Hollywood, if you were over 35 (and looked over 30) you were no longer star material. Norma’s problem wasn’t that she couldn’t get work playing women of her own middle-age, her problem was that she wasn’t willing to play anything that wasn’t a starring, romantic lead role. They pretty much don’t make starring romantic lead roles for middle-aged women, then or now (although it may be getting better). ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4584 "2022-01-27T03:54:00Z")
Another Thurber cartoon. [James Thurber - Well, It Makes A Difference To Me!](https://arthur.io/art/james-thurber/well-it-makes-a-difference-to-me) I saw it first long ago, and I didn’t understand it at all. I put it out of my mind completely. Recently I was reading a Thurber compilation and I saw this cartoon again. It took me a couple of minutes, but I finally got it. The man’s striped pajama bottoms clash with his dotted top. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=228) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=230)