# Obvious things about a creative work you realize after the millionth time (OPEN SPOILERS POSSIBLE) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 24, 2009, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117 "2009-07-24T13:20:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 232
**Author:** ![dirtball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dirtball/32/18772_2.png) [@dirtball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dirtball)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2022, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4625 "2022-02-03T22:44:10Z")
I remember now. The nurses were withholding sex as leverage to try to coerce someone into dating her. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2022, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4626 "2022-02-03T22:44:19Z")
> [@dirtball](#): > > There was an episode where the men were deprived of sex for a while–I’m thinking maybe the nurses were holding out for some reason–and Trapper John says something to the effect of “They look like girls, but I forgot what they’re for.” Cringe. What is the “they” in his sentence? What looks like girls? ---
**Author:** ![dirtball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dirtball/32/18772_2.png) [@dirtball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dirtball)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2022, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4627 "2022-02-03T22:50:05Z")
The women. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2022, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4628 "2022-02-04T14:36:38Z")
The producers felt that Frank Burns was too much of a punching bag and brought in Winchester as someone who could punch back. Better conflict when you go up against someone who wasn’t a buffoon. Note the Robert Duvall’s Frank Burns in the movie was basically a sociopath. ---
**Author:** ![Turek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/turek/32/18782_2.png) [@Turek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turek)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2022, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4629 "2022-02-04T15:14:27Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Note the Robert Duvall’s Frank Burns in the movie was basically a sociopath. Well, he **did** love the smell of napalm in the morning. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2022, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4630 "2022-02-04T21:58:28Z")
_Just a city boy Born and raised in South Detroit…_ Wait a second, wouldn’t South Detroit be Canada? ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2022, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4631 "2022-02-05T00:23:31Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Wait a second, wouldn’t South Detroit be Canada? Yes. I do live in the community south of Detroit, which is called “Downriver”, but I don’t think it is what they were thinking of. And Canada is indeed south of Detroit. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2022, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4632 "2022-02-05T00:59:54Z")
John Cage “composed” a silent work called 4’33"; i.e. musicians were to sit there and do nothing for that length of time. Four minutes and thirty-three seconds equal 273 seconds. 273 degrees Kelvin equals zero on the Celsius scale. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2022, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4633 "2022-02-05T01:14:42Z")
Hey, I’ve heard of Cage and seen a performance including that piece. Nice detail to add to my knowledge. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2022, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4634 "2022-02-05T01:17:18Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > John Cage “composed” a silent work called 4’33"; i.e. musicians were to sit there and do nothing for that length of time. I thought _4’33"_ was for solo piano. A friend of mine was quite a fan of avant-garde classical music. He told me that when it’s performed, the player closes the cover over the keyboard to begin each movement, and opens it at the end. The piece is in three movements; my friend had the sheet music. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2022, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4635 "2022-02-05T01:17:57Z")
I imagine it’s fairly easy to arrange for other instruments. ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2022, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4636 "2022-02-05T01:20:04Z")
Especially Air Guitar. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2022, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4637 "2022-02-05T01:37:27Z")
Cage also wrote a sequel called [0’00"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4%E2%80%B233%E2%80%B3#4%E2%80%B233%E2%80%B3_No._2): > The directions originally consisted of one sentence: “In a situation provided with maximum amplification, perform a disciplined action.” At the first performance Cage had to write that sentence. > The second performance added four new qualifications to the directions: “the performer should allow any interruptions of the action, the action should fulfill an obligation to others, the same action should not be used in more than one performance, and should not be the performance of a musical composition.” ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2022, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4638 "2022-02-05T02:45:14Z")
According to Wikipedia, that indeed was the way it was first performed, but “It was composed in 1952, for any instrument or combination of instruments, and the score instructs performers not to play their instruments during the entire duration of the piece throughout the three movements,” and it since has been presented by orchestras. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2022, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4639 "2022-02-05T03:09:12Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Wait a second, wouldn’t South Detroit be Canada? Here’s what Steve Perry, the composer of that song, says: > **[Steve Perry answers the South Detroit question from Journey's 'Don't Stop...](https://www.mlive.com/entertainment/detroit/2012/01/steve_perry_finally_answers_th.html)** > > "He's just a city boy, born and raised in South Detroit." Huh? Steve Perry finally answers this age-old rock trivia question. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2022, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4640 "2022-02-05T03:19:56Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > The best decision they made in re-casting on that show was to always cast someone very different than the person they are replacing: > > Henry Blake - incompetent draftee replaced by a competent regular-army guy…who they all really like(they liked Blake too) > > Trapper - unfaithful husband and jokester replace by faithful easy-going guy(who does enjoy jokes, though). > > Burns - Incompetent and hateful person replaced by very competent and…well, racist but learning to be less so guy. Houlihan - The way she was depicted on the show in 1972 to the way she was depicted in 1983. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2022, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4641 "2022-02-05T04:08:08Z")
From the article @Wendell_Wagner linked: > [@](#): > > Detroiters, as a rule, belt the first verse – it’s like the Chicago-style hot dog for karaoke. What a great line. ---
**Author:** ![Galactus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galactus/32/3581_2.png) [@Galactus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Galactus)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2022, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4642 "2022-02-05T05:43:20Z")
If you live in a big city and someone asks what part wouldn’t you use a compass point? I’m from Michigan and I’ve never heard this controversy before. I’m confused. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2022, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4643 "2022-02-05T08:35:58Z")
Similarly, _The Night Chicago Died_ begins with: > [@](#): > > My daddy was a cop on the east side of Chicago The east side of Chicago is Lake Michigan. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2022, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4644 "2022-02-05T13:44:21Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Houlihan - The way she was depicted on the show in 1972 to the way she was depicted in 1983. ? She evolved as a character in the way that Larry Linville wishes Burns had. She began as a regular army buffoon that supported and believed in the war and everything the army says. You could tell by the end that the brutality and waste of the war had gotten to her. She even says at the end that she is quitting the army to become a nurse in an American hospital. I don’t blame her. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=231) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=233)