# Obvious things about a creative work you realize after the millionth time (OPEN SPOILERS POSSIBLE) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 24, 2009, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117 "2009-07-24T13:20:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 235
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2022, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4685 "2022-02-20T02:26:53Z")
At the end of the first Terminator movie, Sarah Connor has a dog with her. I just realized that it’s not just a pet. She’s got it because dogs can detect terminators. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2022, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4686 "2022-02-20T15:47:35Z")
Last night I watched the Twilight Zone episode “Nick of Time” (Also known as "The other one with William Shatner.) It opens with their car being towed into the town of Ridgeview, Ohio _with them in it_. Holy crap, was this routine in the sixties? Seems pretty unsafe. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2022, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4687 "2022-02-20T16:02:31Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > At the end of the first Terminator movie, Sarah Connor has a dog with her. I just realized that it’s not just a pet. She’s got it because dogs can detect terminators. Okay, a lot of things in this thread are things I missed myself, but this one? Wow, you really did miss something obvious. Now, possible follow-up mind-blowing question: Did you notice that whenever Kyle Reese passes a dog during the movie, he lets the dog sniff his hand? Because that was standard procedure whenever someone entered the human’s refuge compound in the future, for the same reason. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2022, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4688 "2022-02-20T21:34:57Z")
I don’t know how old you are, but J’onn J’onzz first appeared in _Detective Comics_ in the early fifties. The logo to his stories throughout his run up until 1964 was John Jones, Manhunter from Mars. So it was pretty obvious to me. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2022, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4689 "2022-02-20T22:36:05Z")
John Jones was the name he used on Earth. I thought it was a secret identity, like Clark Kent. A Martian pronunciation _had_ to be different. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2022, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4690 "2022-02-20T23:24:57Z")
This is how they handled the pronunciation in _Supergirl_ (at about 2:50). Sounds like Jhon Jhones. https://www.facebook.com/plugins/video.php?height=224&width=400&href=https://www.facebook.com/SupergirlKara21/videos/hank-henshaw-reveals-himself-as-jonn-jonzz-martian-manhunter/549445361898719/ ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2022, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4691 "2022-02-21T14:50:17Z")
Originally in the original origin… … J’onn J’onzz was brought to Earth as a side effect of an elderly scientist’s attempts to observe Mars. In the excitement of it all, the good doctor died of a heart attack, so the Martian had no way back. (And was a bit over-dressed in those wide bright red diagonal bands and those boots that folded over!) Stuff happens\*, and a few panels later, J’onn observes a police detective being gunned down. He shape-shifts into the cop’s form (trenchcoat and all), and checks his ID… John Jones! I know, hard to believe old comics had coincidences like that… . \*This is all memories of a comics-obsessed kid. It’s a little hazy. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2022, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4692 "2022-02-22T09:47:00Z")
I looked it up. Either you’re misremembering, or you saw a later retelling that changed some details. Here’s a couple of pages from Detective#225, the very first appearance. [![](https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-pv9vjBtLKFQ/VnKQAXwhu8I/AAAAAAAALMc/p8o26Du8Ap4/s1600-Ic42/RCO030.jpg) ](https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-pv9vjBtLKFQ/VnKQAXwhu8I/AAAAAAAALMc/p8o26Du8Ap4/s1600-Ic42/RCO030.jpg) [![](https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Uw6_APyQqM0/VnKQA_jw7RI/AAAAAAAALMI/2YTeSJMssQ0/s1600-Ic42/RCO032.jpg) ](https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Uw6_APyQqM0/VnKQA_jw7RI/AAAAAAAALMI/2YTeSJMssQ0/s1600-Ic42/RCO032.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![furryman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/furryman/32/99_2.png) [@furryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furryman)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2022, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4693 "2022-02-22T20:20:05Z")
LOL. J’onn was obviously a big Dick Tracy fan. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2022, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4694 "2022-02-22T20:22:35Z")
I love how he just waltz into a police station and goes “hey I want to be a detective”. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2022, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4695 "2022-02-22T20:54:44Z")
Oops, sorry. That “Martian see the real detective John Jones die, takes his shape” is from a DC Limited Series (Oh, maybe trying to get around that _waltzing into a police station and saying “Hey, I want to be a detective”_ thing). And there were numerous origin stories after that. Many of which showed his skinny pointed-head “real shape, like all Martians”. So, why did he keep appearing as buff shirtless-except-wide-vinyl-bands? . Geez, how many times do they get to retcon a character’s origin? (If your last name is Byrne or Moore or Morrison, it’s apparently infinite). Hmmm… Since these characters are our modern mythos, did ancient Greek/Roman/Norse kids rewrite their Heroic Figures’ origins? _(Roman fan: “Oh, you’re talking about the “Carthaginian Sailors version” of Hercules, I’m referencing the original! Before he got watered down by modern society…”)_ ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2022, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4696 "2022-02-22T22:17:16Z")
There are multiple versions of multiple Greek myths. Not retcons, per se, but different storytellers telling different stories and having others copy them. And there’s also this fiction anthology called the Bible that pasted both versions one after the other over and over again, starting with Genesis. Heck, Conan Doyle couldn’t remember where he had Watson wounded, so he wrote it two different ways. It might be too strong to say every myth always comes in multiple versions, but that’s good enough as a first approximation. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2022, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4697 "2022-02-22T22:33:47Z")
> [@digs](#): > > Hmmm… Since these characters are our modern mythos, did ancient Greek/Roman/Norse kids rewrite their Heroic Figures’ origins? > > _(Roman fan: “Oh, you’re talking about the “Carthaginian Sailors version” of Hercules, I’m referencing the original! Before he got watered down by modern society…”)_ Literally all of them all of the time. As @Exapno_Mapcase states, different storytellers told different stories. Then there’s the fact that the ancient Greeks and Romans lived in a diverse and syncretetic world. Your city’s Poseidon and my city’s Poseidon might be similar enough that we both agree they’re the same god on some level, but they might be very different. Or my city might not even have a “Poseidon”, but might have another god that’s kinda-sorta similar. Or maybe not really similar at all, but we’ve got a Sky God that you decide is the same god as Zeus, and a Death God that you decide is Hades, and a third Big God that’s the brother of the other two, so that’s got to be Poseidon, right? Which is how get Poseidon, God of the Sea. And Storms (wait, isn’t that Zeus?). And Earthquakes. And Horses. And then later storytellers and much later writers try to take that massive and complex and often contradictory corpus of myths and folkways and cult practices and oratorical traditions, and try to do something with it. It’s not much of an exaggeration to say that Ovid and Hesiod were really super-fans of the Olympians who engaged in literally epic fanwankery to edit and elide and retcon all of that mess into something resembling a half-way coherent canon. And, heck, Euhemerus retconned a lot of those myths into being distorted memories of historical, mortal persons and events. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2022, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4698 "2022-02-22T22:40:27Z")
And that’s before you even get into the association of Thor with Zeus, and Odin with… wait, we’ve already associated the chief Greek god with someone else, so obviously Odin is… Mercury? ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2022, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4699 "2022-02-22T22:53:31Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > And then later storytellers and much later writers try to take that massive and complex and often contradictory corpus of myths and folkways and cult practices and oratorical traditions, and try to do something with it. And I’m pretty sure “That loud guy at the end of the bar” isn’t a purely modern phenomenon. “Wait, I’ve heard this one before, doesn’t Zeus fuck someone while disguised as a bull?” “No! If you’ll just shut up a minute, it’s actually about the time Zeus fucked someone disguised as a … a … swan! Yeah, that’s it, a swan!” “A swan? How is that supposed to work? Who would fuck a swan?!?” “Well, the same person who fucked a bull, that’s who! Now do you want to hear this story or not?!?” ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2022, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4700 "2022-02-22T23:39:37Z")
Bull, swan, bah, that’s just shapeshifting. Impregnating Danaë as a shower of golden rain… Loud guy at a bar? Nah, that’s Alex Jones at his finest. And of course there are multiple versions of the story. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2022, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4701 "2022-02-22T23:55:35Z")
Huh all this time I thought he was a private detective. I guess I need to turn in my geek card. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2022, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4702 "2022-02-23T00:29:21Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Heck, Conan Doyle couldn’t remember where he had Watson wounded, so he wrote it two different ways. John Watson was wounded in the shoulder and James Watson was wounded in the leg. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2022, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4703 "2022-02-23T00:50:29Z")
If you’re going there you also have to tell us how many wives each of them had. Baring-Gould famously gave a total of five. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2022, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4704 "2022-02-23T11:08:36Z")
The Cyberpunk novel _Snow Crash_ by Neal Stephenson is supposed to be set “20 minutes into the future [of 1992]”, or in some kind of alternate future, but the date has to be more or less 2010–2020 at the latest. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=234) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=236)