# Obvious things about a creative work you realize after the millionth time (OPEN SPOILERS POSSIBLE) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 24, 2009, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117 "2009-07-24T13:20:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 236
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2022, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4705 "2022-02-23T12:07:59Z")
Isn’t (the) protagonist the son of a WW2 vet? ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2022, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4706 "2022-02-23T12:23:44Z")
He is around 30, the son of a WW2 vet who joined the army in 1944 at the age of sixteen and had him in late middle age. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2022, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4707 "2022-02-23T13:04:32Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > It might be too strong to say every myth always comes in multiple versions, but that’s good enough as a first approximation. It goes far beyond that. Every storyteller (or artist) has the potential to recast the myth as he or she sees fit. There is a general overall arc to the myth, but even that can change over time. Myths are incredibly fluid, and it’s the ones that have survived and remained popular that define the story as we generally know it. But if you get down and examine the individual stories and artistic representations of them, you find stuff that is downright weird. case in point – If you’ve seen either of the movie versions of Jason and the Argonauts (the Harryhausen movie or the Hallmark made-for-TV one), you think that Jason defeated the dragon guarding the Golden Fleece in combat. If you read Apollonius of Rhodes’ _Argonautika_ (or stories based on it) you know that Medea put the dragon to sleep, as in this vase painting [https://www.theoi.com/Gallery/M20.3.html](https://www.theoi.com/Gallery/M20.3.html) But then you come across things like this Kylix, showing Jason hanging from the serpent/dragon’s mouth and the fleece hanging on its tree while Athena looks on, and you ask “What the Hell?” [https://www.theoi.com/Gallery/M20.1.html](https://www.theoi.com/Gallery/M20.1.html) I can point to several other myths that give you the “what the hell?” treatment. You think you know the story of Pandora? Innocent and too-curious lady opens a box she shouldn’t and lets loose all the evils into the world? Think again. In several vase paintings she’s a woman emerging from the earth – the first woman. In some cases she’s a giant head. (See the works of Jane Ellen Harrison). Phaethon? The guy who found out he was the son of Helios (or, in some later versions, Apollo) and, as proof, asks Dad for the keys to the car so he can drive the sun across the sky? Some old versions are completely different. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2022, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4708 "2022-02-23T13:17:38Z")
In _Snow Crash_, there is a “metaverse” that anyone can get to. It is mostly used by people who don’t want to spend much of their time in the “real world”. It is owned by a corporation. Despite what Zuckerberg thinks, we’re far from any such thing. _Snow Crash_ can’t be taken as an accurate prediction of the future. Lots of it has already happened, lots hasn’t happened, lots will never happen, and lots will only happen quite a while from now if it ever happens. Maybe that’s typical of most science fiction that’s set in a future that isn’t that far off. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2022, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4709 "2022-02-23T13:32:06Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > In _Snow Crash_ , there is a “metaverse” that anyone can get to. It is mostly used by people who don’t want to spend much of their time in the “real world”. It is owned by a corporation. Despite what Zuckerberg thinks, we’re far from any such thing. _Snow Crash_ can’t be taken as an accurate prediction of the future. Lots of it has already happened, lots hasn’t happened, lots will never happen, and lots will only happen quite a while from now if it ever happens. Maybe that’s typical of most science fiction that’s set in a future that isn’t that far off. Science fiction writers, as a rule, don’t try to made accurate predictions - only plausible ones (to varying degrees of “plausible”). ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2022, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4710 "2022-02-23T13:49:37Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Science fiction writers, as a rule, don’t try to made accurate predictions - only plausible ones (to varying degrees of “plausible”). That’s exactly what I think. ---
**Author:** ![dirtball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dirtball/32/18772_2.png) [@dirtball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dirtball)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2022, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4711 "2022-02-23T14:06:12Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Science fiction writers, as a rule, don’t try to made accurate predictions - only plausible ones (to varying degrees of “plausible”). I think a lot of science fiction is not based on trying to predict things so much as examining the relationship between people and science/technology (a much more interesting proposition, IMO). That, of course, involves extrapolating from present-day situations. So when I read _Fahrenheit 451_ and see people with interactive television screens that take up whole walls, I’m not prepared to say that Ray Bradbury was trying to _predict_ what he was describing, but I do think that one way or another, the idea got into his head that people would want such a thing if it could be made available. And how would that affect our lives? Maybe in 1953 it would have been some woo-woo fantasy kind of thing WAY OFF in the distant future, but today? At this point, it’s probably little more than a matter of getting the cost down low enough to make mass marketing economically feasible. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2022, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4712 "2022-02-23T14:10:27Z")
> [@dirtball](#): > > I think a lot of science fiction is not based on trying to predict things so much as examining the relationship between people and science/technology (a much more interesting proposition, IMO). That, of course, involves extrapolating from present-day situations. I think science fiction, like every other form of literature, is mostly about examining the relationship between people and other people. But that, I think, is another thread. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2022, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4713 "2022-02-23T17:02:55Z")
[Carper’s Law: The Future is Never About the Future. It Is Always About Today.](https://www.flyingcarsandfoodpills.com/introduction) ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2022, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4714 "2022-02-24T02:15:15Z")
I think it was Ray Bradbury (or possibly Robert Bloch) who rose in the middle of a panel on SF predictions in a SF convention to say “I don’t write to predict the future! I write to prevent it!”. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2022, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4715 "2022-02-24T05:26:26Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Isn’t (the) protagonist the son of a WW2 vet? Yes, and another character we meet (the Don of Cosa Nostra Pizza) was a Vietnam vet. So that puts another limit on how late the book could be set. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2022, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4716 "2022-02-24T13:17:55Z")
> [@Askance](#): > > I think it was Ray Bradbury (or possibly Robert Bloch) who rose in the middle of a panel on SF predictions in a SF convention to say “I don’t write to predict the future! I write to prevent it!”. I’ve heard that it was Bradbury who said that the aim of science fiction was to prevent the future ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2022, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4717 "2022-02-24T15:01:12Z")
Fine, but who in power listens to novelists? As for _Snow Crash_, the USA has not quite snow-crashed _yet_, but is that thanks to prophetic warnings? As for walking around glued to a computer, in the novel that was not considered cool (especially since some people used bulky gear like VR goggles), but who knows what etiquette is these days. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2022, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4718 "2022-02-24T15:54:49Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > As for walking around glued to a computer, in the novel that was not considered cool (especially since some people used bulky gear like VR goggles), but who knows what etiquette is these days. Okay, I can totally picture our _very_ near future: pedestrians with VR goggles are common, and everyone’s gotten used to pulling their children clear of their blind lumbering path. And holding them back if they’re about to step into traffic. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2022, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4719 "2022-02-24T19:43:54Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > I’ve heard that it was Bradbury who said that the aim of science fiction was to prevent the future [It’s complicated](https://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/10/19/prevent-the-future/). Short version. Ted Sturgeon wrote in 1977 that Bradbury had said that. And Frank Herbert gets attributed with something like that in 1978. Bradbury himself has no definitive quote until a 1982 article. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2022, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4720 "2022-02-24T19:51:50Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > As for walking around glued to a computer Fritz Leiber’s gonzo story,“The Creature from Cleveland Depths,” from the December 1962 _Galaxy_, has what are essentially smartphones be grafted to bodies so that humans are in such constant communication with one another that they form a collective mind. It’s what used to be called black humor when black meant darkly satiric. Nobody ever listened to black humorists, even though they were almost always right in their critiques of culture. ---
**Author:** ![Galactus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galactus/32/3581_2.png) [@Galactus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Galactus)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2022, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4721 "2022-02-24T22:14:24Z")
This reminds me of a comic book from 2011 called NONPLAYER by Nate Simpson where people in the future wear VR goggles that overlays a virtual reality fantasy world over the real world in real time as you’re walking around. > **[The Art of Nate Simpson](https://characterdesignreferences.com/artist-of-the-week-11/nate-simpson)** > > Discover the finest artists from animation, games, illustration, and comics! This time we have the pleasure to introduce you to the art of Nate Simpson... ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2022, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4722 "2022-02-24T22:26:20Z")
Wasn’t augmented reality already a real thing by 2011? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2022, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4723 "2022-03-06T05:33:11Z")
We’ve reached the point where more time has past between now and “Airplane” (42 years) than between “Airplane” and “The Wizard of Oz” (41 years) ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2022, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/4724 "2022-03-06T06:26:03Z")
I have a 20-year-old nephew, and it recently occurred to me that “Raiders of the Lost Ark” is as old to him as “Casablanca” is to me. (21 years before we were each born.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=235) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=237)