# Obvious things about a creative work you realize after the millionth time (OPEN SPOILERS POSSIBLE) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 24, 2009, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117 "2009-07-24T13:20:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/481 "2009-09-30T00:30:22Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > Isn’t there also a resurrection spell in at least some of the Final Fantasy games called “Fenix Down”, or something like that? Which reminds me, it took me forever to realize that the “down” in “fenix down” refers to a feather. I thought it referred to the fact that you used it when one of your characters was down. ---
**Author:** ![Find\_Friends](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@Find\_Friends](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Find_Friends)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/482 "2009-09-30T17:44:46Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > [Location of Smallville.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallville_(comics)#Location) > > Originally in Iowa, later Maryland, finally Kansas. I had forgotten that I had asked a question in this thread. Thank you. Editorial responses to LOC’s in the comix in the '60’s had vaguely answered that Smallville was a _ **suburb** _ of Metropolis, wherever that was. Something truly called a suburb would not seem to me to be your largely farming community, especially not so close to a huge… _ **metropolitan** _😉 city. Some time in the '70’s I saw a map which place it on a river, running quite a distance west from Metropolis, which made a bit more sense. By that time, Metropolis had been placed in :eek: Delaware! This was in the Justice League issue of Amazing World of DC Comics, which also placed Gotham City in New Jersey. The Superman entry also specifically mentioned his growing up in Smallville, Maryland, IIRC. This would be consistent with the westward-extending river. I think that map was in a revived Superboy comic. BTW, Barbara (Batgirl) Gordon became the Congresswoman, not from NJ, but from “Gotham.” Apparently there is a “Gotham State” in Earth-One America. While the locations of _some_ DC superhero cities have never been challenged, perhaps only due to lack of interest, I think that for the ones mentioned, and a couple of others, we are seeing plate tectonics gone mad! ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/483 "2009-09-30T18:10:39Z")
> [@True Blue Jack](#): > > While the locations of _some_ DC superhero cities have never been challenged, perhaps only due to lack of interest, I think that for the ones mentioned, and a couple of others, we are seeing plate tectonics gone mad! We can blame that nuclear missile that Luthor stole, right? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/484 "2009-09-30T19:24:45Z")
> [@](#): > > BTW, Barbara (Batgirl) Gordon became the Congresswoman, not from NJ, but from “Gotham.” Apparently there is a “Gotham State” in Earth-One America. Depending on how that’s presented, it might make sense. A congressional district is about the size of a city, so one can say, for instance, that Dennis Kucinich is the congressman from Cleveland. As long as she’s not appearing on TV with the caption “Barbara Gordon (D-Gotham)”, or whatever, of course. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/485 "2009-09-30T19:24:59Z")
> [@ajdebosco](#): > > Great thread, and I’m a little off on this but .. > > a couple of say aloud pranks that some people haven’t heard: > > I am sofa king > we Todd Head > > and a pink phone message note > > 7/31/09 4:25 p.m. > > (312) 555-1624 > > please return call > > Oliver Klozehoff Hey, I know this game: “Gargle snork banana!” “Fruminous Blardersplat Grunglebug!” What, you don’t get it? :dubious: > [@DWMarch](#): > > I don’t know how obvious it is to everyone else but in Aliens, it seems very clear to me now that Bishop sold Ripley and co. out. He lies right to her face and no one catches him on it. He tells Ripley and the surviving marines that flight time for the second drop ship will be 40 minutes. Now hold on a minute there Mr. Bishop. That’s the express elevator to hell you’re talking about. We watched the flight in real time when it was done with a load of squishy marines and a human pilot and from start to finish it took FOUR minutes, not forty. So Bishop had control of that drop ship for a lot longer than he let on. Check his expression when the survivors show up at the landing field early because of Newt’s shortcut. “Oops, you’re not supposed to be here yet!” So that’s how the eggs got on board in Alien 3. Bishop ferried them there. That’s probably also why the Queen ripped him in half- she recognized him as the egg thief! I seriously doubt this. IIRC, it was 40 minutes to _prep and fly_ the dropship _on remote_. And how did Bishop, who had rejected the pistol Vasquez gave him as he entered the pipe (he looked at it blankly, and handed it back to Ripley), get past all the Alien Warriors, who clearly obey their Queen (she called them off Ripley as Ripley threatened her egg cache with a flamethrower), to steal several eggs? You’re way off-base on this. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/486 "2009-09-30T21:45:03Z")
I assumed Velvet Underground’s “Waiting for My Man” was about gay cruising, until a friend explained it is about scoring smack. Conversely, I did not realize “Lola” **is** about gay stuff until I learned it includes the lines (not easily discerned from listening) “I know what I am, what I am is a man, so is Lola.” Likewise with “Take a Walk on the Wild Side.” ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/487 "2009-09-30T21:50:57Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Conversely, I did not realize “Lola” **is** about gay stuff until I learned it includes the lines (not easily discerned from listening) “I know what I am, what I am is a man, so is Lola.” IIRC, it’s _“I know what I am, and I’m glad I’m a man, and so is Lola.”_ Which is ambiguous, but then you’ve got all the other stuff: she walked like a woman and talked like a man, she picked me up and sat me on her knee – girls will be boys and boys will be girls, and et cetera. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/488 "2009-10-01T00:13:17Z")
> [@Tengu](#): > > John and Mary, specifically. Apparently it’s changed multiple times, because at one point it was Eben and Sarah. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/489 "2009-10-01T01:08:50Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > IIRC, it’s _“I know what I am, and I’m glad I’m a man, and so is Lola.”_ Which is ambiguous, but then you’ve got all the other stuff: she walked like a woman and talked like a man, she picked me up and sat me on her knee – girls will be boys and boys will be girls, and et cetera. “I’m glad I’m a man” is the correct line. A long time ago on another forum someone used this as an example of the rare and extremely difficult to execute triple entendre. I hadn’t thought of it that way, but although this line clearly tells us that the narrator is a man (which was obvious anyway) and that he’s glad he’s a man, but “and so’s Lola” could be taken three ways: 1. Lola is also glad the narrator is a man. 2. Lola is, like the narrator, a man. 3. The narrator is glad that he and Lola are both men. I think most people take the last line of the song as #2, a kind of punchline, but it’s more clever than that. The exact phrasing leaves a little room for interpretation as to the question of Lola’s true sex (although, as you say, the rest of the song drops some pretty big hints), but it leaves a _lot_ of room for interpretation when it comes to the narrator’s feelings on the matter. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/490 "2009-10-01T04:09:52Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > I seriously doubt this. IIRC, it was 40 minutes to _prep and fly_ the dropship _on remote_. And how did Bishop, who had rejected the pistol Vasquez gave him as he entered the pipe (he looked at it blankly, and handed it back to Ripley), get past all the Alien Warriors, who clearly obey their Queen (she called them off Ripley as Ripley threatened her egg cache with a flamethrower), to steal several eggs? > > You’re way off-base on this. Perhaps the Aliens didn’t recognize him as a threat? They’d probably never run into something like him before-perhaps he befuddled their senses? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/491 "2009-10-01T04:21:24Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > Perhaps the Aliens didn’t recognize him as a threat? They’d probably never run into something like him before-perhaps he befuddled their senses? That’s my take on it as well. Aliens have no (apparent) eyes, so they must rely on some other sensory organ to function. IIRC, in the Alien vs. Predator video games they’ve got a kind of heat vision, and it doesn’t display synthetics very well. The game’s fluff describes that vision mode as a combination of echolocation and identifying pheromones emitted by humans and predators - synthetics don’t have pheromones. Or they could rely purely on smell, which again a synthetic would fool as they probably smell like plastic. If Aliens rely on super-hearing and echolocation, again a synthetic could fool them : no beating heart, no internal organs to go “bloop, bloop”. I would assume just standing still would be enough to be confused for some bit of machinery or similar. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2009, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/492 "2009-10-03T13:31:26Z")
I just realized that the writer of the Oz books and the Muppeter can be put together as “L. Frank Oz Baum.” They both have the name Frank, which never occurred to me until now. I watched the Early Show on CBS Friday to see how they would cover the Lettterman story. The first time I realized the “sunrise” logo is really the top half of the CBS eye logo. ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2009, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/493 "2009-10-03T15:03:21Z")
Fight Club: I’m embarrassed to admit that I thought Tyler Durden just left somewhere. It never occurred to me until much later that he was a split personality of (narrator). ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2009, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/494 "2009-10-03T17:09:15Z")
A couple of minor points about Watchmen that I didn’t twig until about my 5th reading. 1. Hooded Justice and Captain Metropolis are gay. 2. The pirate story is part of the “dying alien” message. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2009, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/495 "2009-10-03T18:22:30Z")
> [@stpauler](#): > > Fight Club: I’m embarrassed to admit that I thought Tyler Durden just left somewhere. It never occurred to me until much later that he was a split personality of (narrator). I wouldn’t blame myself for that if I were you, since it’s a stupid twist and doesn’t make much sense. The narrator attracted his followers by standing outside a bar hitting himself? ---
**Author:** ![Telperion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telperion/32/509_2.png) [@Telperion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telperion)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2009, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/496 "2009-10-03T19:13:32Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > That’s my take on it as well. > Aliens have no (apparent) eyes, so they must rely on some other sensory organ to function. IIRC, in the Alien vs. Predator video games they’ve got a kind of heat vision, and it doesn’t display synthetics very well. The game’s fluff describes that vision mode as a combination of echolocation and identifying pheromones emitted by humans and predators - synthetics don’t have pheromones. > Or they could rely purely on smell, which again a synthetic would fool as they probably smell like plastic. > If Aliens rely on super-hearing and echolocation, again a synthetic could fool them : no beating heart, no internal organs to go “bloop, bloop”. I would assume just standing still would be enough to be confused for some bit of machinery or similar. I agree. The cut scene with the sentry turrets from Aliens certainly seems to suggest they don’t know how to fight back effectively against non-living opponents. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/497 "2009-10-07T15:45:01Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > The narrator attracted his followers by standing outside a bar hitting himself? Sooooo if you walked out of a bar and saw a guy hitting himself, you wouldn’t stop to watch? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/498 "2009-10-07T16:03:46Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Sooooo if you walked out of a bar and saw a guy hitting himself, you wouldn’t stop to watch? I wouldn’t. I’d assume the guy was nuts and possibly dangerous and thus would rather keep my distance. ---
**Author:** ![filling\_pages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b9bd4f/32.png) [@filling\_pages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filling_pages)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/499 "2009-10-07T16:11:04Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Conversely, I did not realize “Lola” **is** about gay stuff until I learned it includes the lines (not easily discerned from listening) “I know what I am, what I am is a man, so is Lola.” Likewise with “Take a Walk on the Wild Side.” There’s “gay stuff” in Wild Side, but more specifically, it’s about various people were part of Andy Warhol’s circle. (Holly Woodlawn, Candy Darling, Joe Dallesandro, Jackie Curtis and Joe Campbell.) ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/500 "2009-10-07T16:12:49Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I wouldn’t. I’d assume the guy was nuts and possibly dangerous and thus would rather keep my distance. Really? You’d just skirt around him and keep going? Wouldn’t stay and watch–even from that distance? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=26)