# Obvious things about a creative work you realize after the millionth time (OPEN SPOILERS POSSIBLE) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 24, 2009, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117 "2009-07-24T13:20:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 261
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2023, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/5207 "2023-01-03T15:53:26Z")
This didn’t occur to me in all my years of reading or watching various versions of the Addams family. But Wednesday’s name is not just random. As somebody mentioned in a thread, it’s inspired by the nursery rhyme about Wednesday’s child being full of woe. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2023, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/5208 "2023-01-03T15:54:22Z")
It’s stated explicitly at the beginning of the new series. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2023, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/5209 "2023-01-03T15:56:41Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > It’s stated explicitly at the beginning of the new series And apparently Charles Addams acknowledged it. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2023, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/5210 "2023-01-03T17:55:09Z")
Addams suggested all the names of the characters, though the producers balked at “Pubert” and changed it to “Pugsley.” Note that the characters were a very small part of his output and were never given names until it went to TV. _The New Yorker,_ his main market for his work, refused to accept any cartoons featuring the family once he sold it to TV. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2023, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/5211 "2023-01-03T18:37:57Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Addams suggested all the names of the characters, though the producers balked at “Pubert” and changed it to “Pugsley.” Which the _Addams Family Values_ movie resurrected by naming their second son Pubert. ---
**Author:** ![WildaBeast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wildabeast/32/6_2.png) [@WildaBeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildaBeast)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2023, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/5212 "2023-01-03T18:39:39Z")
Last night I had the song “You’ll Be Back” from _Hamilton_ stuck in my head. For those who haven’t seen the play, the song is sung by the King George III character, and it contains the line “Oceans rise, empires fall…” And it hit me last night, empires fall… like the British Empire 🤦‍♂️. Now that I noticed that I am sure having King George sing that line was meant to be ironic. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2023, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/5213 "2023-01-03T20:31:55Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Were there blacks in say- The Lion in Winter nor the Adventures of Robin Hood (1938), Robin and Marion, _Henry V_, nor _William the Conqueror_ or all sorts of Medieval period costume dramas of the past? There are multiple Black and Brown knights and other characters in The Matter of Britain and The Matter of France. We _should_ expect some PoC in authentic medieval stories, yes. ---
**Author:** ![Reeses\_Monkey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reeses_monkey/32/2885_2.png) [@Reeses\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeses_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2023, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/5214 "2023-01-03T20:59:37Z")
I always thought her name was a reference to actress [Tuesday Weld](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuesday_Weld) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2023, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/5215 "2023-01-10T17:18:58Z")
I was rewatching Endgame recently and two things occurred to me that I hadn’t noticed before. Tony Stark probably set up Clint and Natasha. We saw the group gathering information about the infinity stones and we’ve seen in previous movies that Stark likes to gather his own information and make his own plans. So he probably figured out that getting the soul stone would require a sacrifice of a loved one and realized Clint and Natasha or Bruce and Natasha were the only two combinations that would work. He probably manipulated it to be Clint and Natasha because we’ve seen Bruce is his friend and he was more willing to sacrifice one of the other two. The second thing I noticed is that Okoye gets dropped from the story. We saw that she survives the blip and that she’s working regularly with the surviving Avengers five years later. But when they come up with the time travel plan and gather everyone together, Okoye is not there. As far as I know, no explanation is given. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2023, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/5216 "2023-01-10T17:41:29Z")
Yesterday I was watching a top 10 list that happened to include a shot of John Wayne Gacy in the recent Dahmer series. Despite watching The Good Place about a million times, I never noticed that [Henry](https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2022-03/16/0/asset/73a9528caa11/sub-buzz-1430-1647391637-1.jpg) played [Gacy](https://static1.moviewebimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/Dominic-Burgess-as-John-Wayne-Gacy-in-Monster-The-Jeffrey-Dahmer-Story.jpg) in Dahmer. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2023, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/5217 "2023-01-10T21:31:12Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > He probably manipulated it to be Clint and Natasha because we’ve seen Bruce is his friend and he was more willing to sacrifice one of the other two. That and he just couldn’t predict how the Hulk would react in that situation and he knew Natasha would make the sacrifice play. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2023, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/5218 "2023-01-10T23:14:06Z")
He might also have anticipated that Banner’s brains and/or gamma resistance would prove critical. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2023, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/5219 "2023-01-11T05:29:43Z")
He probably figured the two non-powered members of the group were the most expendable. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2023, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/5220 "2023-01-11T07:47:06Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > He probably figured the two non-powered members of the group You mean, other than himself. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2023, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/5221 "2023-01-11T17:07:38Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > You mean, other than himself. He, Jim Rhodes, and Scott Lang count as super-powered because of their suits. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2023, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/5222 "2023-01-11T23:24:19Z")
Iron Man also has superhuman intelligence. The suit is just how that intelligence manifests. Anyone can wear a Stark suit, but not just anyone can design and build the things. Rhodes and Lang aren’t superpowered, but they do both have a lot more practice and experience at using their suits than most. Of course, Stark is upfront about his personal motivations: He explicitly says that if he has to choose between his daughter and four billion other humans (plus untold numbers of trillions of other sophonts), he’s choosing his daughter, and he makes no apology for that. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2023, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/5223 "2023-01-12T04:56:10Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > You wouldn’t expect talking animals to be present in a medieval generic western European setting either. So why do you accept the introduction of them into a medieval generic western European setting? I wouldn’t unquestioningly accept talking animals in a Medieval European fantasy setting if they weren’t native to Europe, either. Yeah, _Robin Hood_ always bugged me, on a zoological level, even as a kid. Dancing Maid Marian be damned. Though the incongruous Southern Accents might have actually been surprisingly closer to some British accents of the period, according to some threads of linguistic research. If you REALLY want to get screwed up, though? Characters in this setting are explicitly Christians, and at least one actually went on the Third Crusade. Ergo, at some point, in this world, at least one talking cartoon animal got scourged and nailed to a cross. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2023, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/5224 "2023-01-12T06:20:24Z")
What sort of animal do you think Jesus was? I’m guessing “stoat.” ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2023, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/5225 "2023-01-12T10:36:09Z")
Opossum? ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2023, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/5226 "2023-01-12T11:07:02Z")
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